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TOPIC: Glaring issues with AKA's new compliance policy.

Glaring issues with AKA's new compliance policy. 2 months 4 weeks ago #29846

  • Re-leaf LLC
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Skimming through the AKA'S new vendor compliance policy.... And I have a couple glaring problems.

The policy states:

"The labeling on kratom products should specifically state the levels of the two alkaloids of specific concern to the FDA, mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine, and any appropriate warnings on the appropriate amounts that can be safely consumed by a consumer."

Thats like having a mandatory label KNOWING you have inaccurate information on the label. Its prompting the spread of false information.

You can't have accurate Alkaloid numbers on the packages. That's going to have vendors lying. It's impossible and will promote dishonest business practice.


The alkaloid levels change dramatically sometimes. Definitely from plant to plant but even from leaf to leaf. The top of a tree the middle and the bottom can even have different alkaloid values. This isnt like alcohol. You cant just try and instill a method that isnt practical. They are trying to label kratom like alcohol and thats not possible.

The alkaloid values can even change if the methods of drying are different or even a slight change in light or air.... Dishonest vendors peddling crap product with lying labels... that is your answer? That is not at all realistic and not fair. You just want a song and dance and no accuracy? Because thats what youll get. Its not possible to have accurate numbers. This makes them look like they dont know what they are doing.

Take my company...I have over 200-400 small batches (3- 20 kilos). So, your saying i must have unrealistic comprehensive testing for alkaloids when even the same batch can have a different alk value.

If you have 10 trees... you will have at the least 10 different alk values from each tree. If not more. The top, bottom and middle of the trees can have different values..THEN those values change through drying and even sometimes storage time and/or light! Its completetly unrealistic to demand alk testing. AS A MATTER OF FACT IF YOU HAVE A VENDOR CLAIMING UP TO DATE ALL ALK TESTING ON ALL HIS SUPPLY HE IS 1000% LYING. Testing on contamination is easy with strips but alks. Those are lies. Id bet a million on that. Does anyone know how much one sample is to get tested for alks? Your LUCKY to find it for $500. And that is FAR FROM an overnight process lol.

And apparantly the AKA doesnt know the best/easiest way vendors test their product for contamination.

Do any of you even know how kratom companies test for contamination on a regular basis?

NOT comprehensive testing. You have a WAY MORE ACCURATE, real time way of dip sticks.

A forensic comprehensive test is very expensive and unnecessary. Especially when you receive a lot of different products. The easiest way to maintain clean product is to get test strips. They are strips that test the product on site.

There are strips from a company called maxsignal, LumiQuick Diagnostics, rapid test, biolumix or another company cayman chemical and many more. They are specific to any contaminant you are looking for.... so you have to get a kit for each thing you are looking for that's the safest and practical way and realistic up to date way. The other non realistic "3rd party" way is going to promote dishonest people. Why not just have realistic standards instead of standards that are impossible to meet?

Im going to politely ask you all to question the AKA on this. They need to retract the alkaloid request and rephrase their requests for testing. That is completely impossible. Each leaf is different, almost like a snow flake.

This is not like alcohol. This is not like a pharmaceutical drug. This is not like anything out there.

This isnt like Pot. Where you can grow in a room and control all the settings. Even then the THC values are usually just a estimation taken from one sample. Think how inaccurate THC testing is and them just multiply that by ten!

They are not giving information on easy practical ways to test and label.

They are making unrealistic requests.

They had my support 100%, but now I see they might be just throwing stuff on a a wall. This i know is 100% a song and dance. And the only thing they will get from this is p'eed off middle time and low end vendors. I dont say high volume vendors because those guys already probably somehow sold out.

The small time purists. The guys and gals who know kratom inside and out. Those people just get pushed out by this smoke you want the vendors to blow up the publics backside.

I am a small batch vendor and this policy they came up with is putting me in a spot where i have to lie. Lie because the science doesnt match the demands. There is no choice but to lie.

I love the idea. I do.

Cleanliness, check. Food safe, check. Batch numbers, check.

But the testing requests are not realistic.

This will be dividing the community and is not bringing us together at all.

The requests are unrealistic and it makes the AKA look like they have a limited idea about the kratom industry.

I love the AKA. And when you love something you want it to do good. This idea is a good one but has some major flaws.

You could say that this is what the FDA demands. But thats not true. Thats what the AKA thinks the FDA wants. So, the AKA just wants us to sing a song for everyone.

Im done ranting. But, this policy needs to be changed and edited. Theres a more practical way to do it.

Ps.

You want to learn about kratom? Here is an article I wrote.

www.re-leaf.us/why-maeng-da-bali-borneo-...tnam-are-a-myth.html
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Last edit: by Re-leaf LLC.

Glaring issues with AKA's new compliance policy. 2 months 4 weeks ago #29850

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I forgot to mention. This effectively eliminates all blends. The alk values will change and your supposed to have accurate values when blending 2 or more strains?
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Glaring issues with AKA's new compliance policy. 2 months 4 weeks ago #29857

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Curious. Any other vendors have grievances? Would like to see others respond.
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Glaring issues with AKA's new compliance policy. 2 months 4 weeks ago #29860

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If I could get more information about the Kratom I am buying I would not have any problem with blends being eliminated. Vendors could easily give or sell their blend recipes and people could make their own or sell blend packs of single strains for the user to combine into a specific blend.

I am wondering however, if maybe it would be possible for the AKA to adjust the wording of this to specify a range of alkaloid content.
Eg.
"We have tested this batch and it consistently has between 7 and 10% mitragynine content"

Thoughts?
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BEV

#humboldtstrong
#torontostrong

Glaring issues with AKA's new compliance policy. 2 months 4 weeks ago #29871

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Number one, I have lots of respect for you. I am extremely passionate about this and need you to know that I only want the best for people. Just the honest best.

As an enthusiast, I am 100% sure that more issues arrive from the other 30+ alkaloids. So... Just to be politically correct we will throw those 2 on the label? This is 100% not correct and doesnt matter in the grand scheme of protecting the consumers. Its just a way to try and point at something. America always needs answers. Even if there isnt an answer, they find one.

Theres been 13 large outbreaks of salmonella from tomatoes since 2005. Does anybody ask for tests before making a salad? Anyone labeling tomatoes? These outbreaks were larger than kratom. Why not just make every piece of produce be 3rd party tested?

People just dont understand kratom and the real problem here. Its not kratom its the people.

Everyone is just brainwashed by the media and its insane attacks. We are being attacked by the FDA. They want us to start nitpicking ourselves. Dividing ourselves.

ITS A PLANT. It doesnt work the way we want it to, just because people wish the 2 alkaloids were the only things to worry about.

I bet..reactions to the smaller alks cause much more issues than the "Big 2". I equate it to food allergies. People react certain ways to certain alks. We dont know which ones...but, its always random issues with kratom. Never any issues with mit or 7h.

The only thing people care about is whats being driven down our throats by a media who is directed to slash us at our knees.

There is so much sickness spread by food. SO MUCH... it just happens. Kratom is very much safer than the chicken in 5% of all of our restaurants.

People have now convinced themselves that there is an issue with kratom. There simply is not an issue. I have personally tried over 550 pure strains of kratom. Im telling you now, this campaign is lies and just a classic finger pointing campaign for America. Just another pointless canpaign to appease hypersensitivity.

This is called controlled opposition.

People are asking to be told whats in your Kratom bag. Its kratom. A plant. Produce.

The FDA commissioner is unelected. Chosen.
Hand picked to put money in the pockets of companies. THOSE COMPANIES ARE THE SAME PEOPLE WHO FUND 75% OF OUR POLITICAL STRUCTURE. Thats whats in office at the FDA...what about this guy...this guy Gottlieb who is a criminal. He worked for investment banks, then big pharmacy companies, then he went to FDA his first year in office he approved A RECORD BREAKING amount of drugs. He signed off on most drugs. His pen will kill more people this year from those drugs than kratom in its American history.

Kratom isnt the issue here. We need to do a better job attacking the issue. If Gottlieb wants to tout suspect salmonella tests, issue standard press releases against kratom, pocket money from his signatures, and tweet that kratom is harmful. Its time to use the money being generated to start digging up Gottliebs real past.

We have someone raping our freedoms, brainwashing the population, and cashing in at our expense. But, no offense, we are worried at pointless labels that would do nothing but lie and appease the criminal Gottlieb. While he okays record numbers of drugs, we just sit back and take it and cower in the corner hoping he leaves us alone.

Screw kratom. Id give up kratom to get this criminal out of office. His background is ridiculous. Its blatant. We are pointing ourselves at the wrong thing. He approved a record smashing amount of drugs. We are worried about kratom when there is a criminal at the head of the FDA.

This isnt an issue about kratom. This an issue about the influence of a criminal political structure.

This is about being an American. Kratom is our freedom. So now, a small number of hypersensitive people now dictate the people?

But. Hey... i know how people work. I get it.

Im just p'eed off. I hope you all can respect my opinion.
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Glaring issues with AKA's new compliance policy. 2 months 4 weeks ago #29872

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Where you been all my life, Re-Leaf? (Seriously, I never heard back when I e-mailed to initiate registration. You were the first vendor I contacted when joining here. Just sayin...)

This, and the excellent article you linked, reminds me of my favorite riddle that was invaluable to my voir dire practice...A fellow looking for a place called the land of truth comes to a fork in the road, where there's somebody standing who comes either from the land of truth or the land of lies. What's the one question you can ask him wh/ will certainly give you the path to take at the fork?

Whenever I come across disconnects like this, I try to ask the question that best provides the same answer from opposing interests/motives, such that neither answer is reassuring. In simpler circumstances (with lower stakes), if they know better, then why are they saying otherwise? If they don't know better, why am I listening? Fortunately I've reduced my life to minimal dependency upon others, or upon institutions especially, such that my general litmus test is now a manageable, "Would I let them walk my dog?"

From a distance, I can only hope that your "reasonable person standard" (a legal standard AND term of art), finds its way to where it needs to be, but unfortunately the reason it does no good to speak truth to power is b/c power already knows it.

I've thought from the beginning of this Kratom journey that the appeal ought to be to influential Chambers of Commerce and other financial/business interests ALONG THE LINES of its benefits--better productivity, lower health care costs, less time missed from work, alternative to marijuana, etc., etc--rather than try to stay standing while being put on its heels by threatened interests like pharma. That must be a losing battle. The initiative shoulda been grabbed from the outset as one of positive financial and health benefit to those powers that be wh/ are commensurate with, nay, greater than, the enemy here (pharma) whose only interest is its defense of that much smaller piece of the American pie.

We shouldn't be relying upon AKA unless and until it's willing to carry the initiative to where it belongs, as greater than the narrow phone booth fight it's defending Kratom against in some dusty institutional corridor. If we confine the Kratom subject to this narrow legal/political attack, and continue to react merely defensively, then we may as well wait for Gottleb to have a Scrooge moment.
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Last edit: by LaoWhooo.

Glaring issues with AKA's new compliance policy. 2 months 4 weeks ago #29873

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Hey bud! We dont require application to purchase anymore. You shouldvd got a email stating that sorry... there is a "how to" video on our website to show the ordering process.

We respond quickest by text. 2079076687.

But as for your response. I love anyone with well thought out words as you have written. Kudos!

Ill be back later folks. I wish everyone well. Always.

Remember people can agree to disagree!
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Glaring issues with AKA's new compliance policy. 2 months 4 weeks ago #29874

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First Re-leaf was the my first :blush: I recommend them highly.
Second I had to pull my reading glasses out of my purse for this thread making me feel old.
Third would love to hear a few other vendor's opinions.
Also Mr. Kemp if any opinions, if not to busy with you writings which I follow on Twitter and Facebook. I highly recommend to all very educational and thought provoking.
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Glaring issues with AKA's new compliance policy. 2 months 3 weeks ago #29896

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I was typing my reply (to Joe's initial post) while he posted his next one, but no matter. His second post is actually more to the point of what I was trying to say, the "disconnect" that marks the beginning of a futile effort. If Forbes can so easily deconstruct Gottlieb's Feb. statement, 3 days after he released it, and it persists nonetheless, then we know that science isn't going to impact on the issue at hand. And if we look more closely at what has been approved, we'd already have understood this. We'd already know that science isn't driving, nor logic, reason, or any of the rest. It's not about the science, but the money. Honestly, there have to be folk who "hope" that a Kratom exception will be carved out, and those who "think" that it won't. I'd rather think than hope, and all evidence points to the probability that the AKA is bringing a knife to a gun fight. In case nobody's read it
www.forbes.com/sites/davidkroll/2018/02/...sumers/#630d26e94536
While I wish that wasn't the case, I also wish that our interests would've been mustered around a campaign that had appealed to the "money benefits," to business and industry, because in reality it was never about the science. We're learning today just how true that is with all manner of product. Believe it or not, no matter, and no need to dive into all the legislative histories of the last 50 years. You can see it all in miniature in Gottlieb's statement, by simply considering the likelihood that it passes any kind of rigorous muster. It does not. That's what's glaring Joe. That's what's blinding you like the brights from an oncoming car. And that's why you have to give up this particular tack.
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Last edit: by LaoWhooo.

Glaring issues with AKA's new compliance policy. 2 months 3 weeks ago #29898

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There is no money lost from the pain management patients who were forced to taper or forced off their medication and then turned to Kratom. There is possible future profit lost from he patients not seeking the these mythical new pain medication that are being developed. (I hear about pharm companies developing something but nothing concrete no potential date when such drugs would be available)
There is money lost from patients leaving rehab centers and no longer taking Methadone,Naltrexone, Buprenorphine and a number of other rehab medicines. I believe I read one rehab patient cost 40,000.

I am still trying to follow and understand the best and most effective way to keep Kratom legal as a herbal supplement and if the AKA is doing the best to establish this.
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