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TOPIC: Withdrawl

Withdrawl 2 months 2 weeks ago #33805

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Hey Laurie,

I am on the Subutex because I became addicted to Opiates after a back injury. I took Tramadol for approx 4 years and become very dependent. I quit because I started to abuse them. I never really stopped as my wife had a script of her own and I would always take hers. It was a terrible terrible time of stealing, lying and just hating myself. I finally admitted I had an issue and went to a addiction medicine doctor to get on subs. They help tremendously but as we all now know, they are even further addictive. So 2 years later I'm still on subutex and while I could continue on them forever, I am not happy, it's expensive ($168/month for my Doc appt) and I know it isn't healthy. I'm ready to withdrawal for my last time. I came across Kratom while reading a website about Opiate Addiction and beating it. THe guy believes in the power of Kratom and after reading a bunch and researching quite a bit, I believe too. My wife is on my side with this also because she wants me off the subutex as well although she's been quiet about it for 2 years. She figured me taking them and nothing else but much better than lying and stealing her pills behind her back and constantly going through withdrawals when i'd have to come clean to her that I was taking pills again. I've grown to completely DESPISE the word PILL now. When I hear the word I literally shudder and fear and anxiety sweeps over me. I would even call it a paranoid feeling. It's strange but it's there.

I planned to taper down slowly with the subutex but I'm terrible at it honestly. I'd almost rather just stop today and start taking K and go with it. The longer I take Sub in any dose the longer it is going to drag out the bad stuff(In my mind). I took my normal 16mg sub yesterday and only 8mg today. I took some White borneo this morning with no effect whatsoever which I totally understand is because the sub is still bound to my receptors.

I have purchased 12oz of Red Bali, 4 oz of Red Maeng Da from Top Extracts and got a 1oz Sample of White Borneo from another vendor so far. I have also purchased a Greens supplement to take daily and Potassium. This is my tool kit thus far.

By the way I realize I should probably make a thread of my own for this but I wanted to give you as much info as I could at this time.
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Withdrawl 2 months 2 weeks ago #33806

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Hi KRA KRA,

I hesitate to recommend kratom for those whose brains enjoyed tramadol. It’s too similar molecularly. Kratom is an opioid agonist. Just like tramadol. Only less powerful. Kratom only stimulates those same receptors for a short period, whereas tramadol stimulates them in greater intensity, from what I understand.

I am also a recovering addict. Actively helping get people to stay clean and choose life. So I hear you and your disease might not be a suitable match for using kratom safely.

Kratom is under constant threat of a ban. Your subs are available to you. Other than, “it’s healthier because it’s a plant based substance”, what huge change do you stand to gain by switching?

I don’t tend to discourage kratom use, but I am well aware of our disease and I don’t think you should risk ALL YOU HAVE and LOVE (wife, kids, job) to switch to a plant based substance.

Kratom has only 2-6 hours per dose of active relief. You’ll need to be investing AT LEAST what you pay for subs on plant material. So you’ll pay our vendors instead of a dr, but you risk being one who wants to use EXTRACTS because that’s a derivative of kratom that is closer to your drug of choice. The price goes up, availability is sketchy and you have yourself with NO WIFE but some great plant based substance.

I hate to discourage getting off subs. But you might be the poster man of WHO THEY HELP!

What do you stand to gain by switching to a more natural, but unreliable and NOT FREE substance?

We are here for you. I would not press on to get off subs without a huge support system in place for addiction recovery AND I would recommend you only stay on kratom only to get ALL OPIATES out of your body.

Kratom is not a better long term plan for keeping addiction dormant for EVERYONE THE SAME.

It’s a risky jump for your particular disease and you will not save a dime by the switch.

You’d better think hard about what you stand to gain by switching when subs ARE keeping your disease dormant EXCEPT your wanting to switch is not a good sign. Our disease is clever. And progressively fatal.

I’m not your wife, but I vote “no” for this unless you have a reason besides being sick of being an addict and possible financial savings you won’t see. Kratom is not FREE and it’s not going to be free anytime soon.
Laurie
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Withdrawl 2 months 2 weeks ago #33808

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KRA:

You are going to need much more Kratom on hadn to do what you want to do. It requires a lot of experimenting with increasing doses until you find what we call a sweet spot.

It is important that you have an adequate supply so that you have enough to treat yourself and not run out.

At 24 gms a day I need at least 150 gms a week to keep me going. Sometmes it takes a week for my Kratom order to arrive so I never want to run out.

I would stick with the reds as they seem to most closely mimic the opioid action and satisfy the opioid receptors in your body.
This is not the time to experiment with strains...you need to concentrate on getting off the subs.

It sounds like you really want to avoid the taper and just get at it on the KRatom. Unfortunately I have no expereince with suboxone so I cannot help you there BUT I do know that if you understand what withdrawal is and what causes it you may be better equippped to handle this.


Withdrawal is nothing more than empty opioid receptors getting angry and yelling feed me, feed me! You have a choice on the menu to feed them with suboxone OR mitragynine and 7-hydroxymytrogynine (alkaloids in Kratom).

So you take as much as you need as often as you need to in order to keep them satisfied.

Also the longer you go between feeding them the more likely you are to lose some opioid receptors and have your body down-regulate itself.

Once you stop the subs the opioid receptors will empty out, and will continue to empty out for days. Your dose of Kratom then may escalate over that time.

AS LONG AS you do not feel nauseated or have your head in the toilet bowl you are not taking too much. WE cannot gurantee you will not feel any negative side effects as you will be withdrawing, but the Kratom should make it much less intense.
Some people report that is was miraculous and easy...other just reort that it was still unpleasant but a lot easier than they thought.
BEV

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Withdrawl 2 months 1 week ago #33823

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Laurie, I certainly hear you. I understand it isn't a perfect trade off. My goal is to use Kratom to get off SUBS and then either use Kratom here and there or stop totally. I really desire to live daily without needing ANYTHING to get me through. I don't know if that is obtainable but I can at least try. Yes Kratom is expensive but just say I continue going to the Sub clinic, monthly. It cost me $168 each visit until my very high deductible is met then it's $35. Luckily my script is only $4 a month because I switched to Subutex. Besides the fact that it is financially taxing, I feel as though I am nothing more than a Maintaining Addict. That's all it is! I've asked the Doc about coming off Subs and what the end game was and he basically told me, "Once an Addict always an addict. You'll need this forever." I'm sorry, I just can't make myself accept that. I do know that Subutex helps with my back pain dramatically and does make daily life MUCH easier but there's many factors that can improve these things that I currently have not pursued.

A healthy Diet and excercise would go a LONG way in improving my pain and inflammation as well as energy levels. I'm 32 and although I'm not obese, I am in terrible shape and really unhealthy for my age. I KNOW this is something I must do regardless. Kratom will just be a tool to help me with these processes.

I do very much appreciate your honest opinions and thoughts. That's why I came here.
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Withdrawl 2 months 1 week ago #33831

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KRA KRA,

Thank you for hearing my concerns. That’s all from me on the subs issue, and I’ll join the crew in assisting you for the best success. The hardest part is getting started detoxing off the subs....hang in there and thank you for sharing your story so far, so we can effectively be of utmost help.

The gang is already offering support on that other thread....best wishes!
Laurie

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