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TOPIC: Looking for advice and a place to talk

Looking for advice and a place to talk 2 months 4 weeks ago #21191

  • Tao-kakuam
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Hello,
I've been reading this forum for a few days now. And decided to be more then just a looker.
Let me explain why I'm here. I was on another forum to get off of suboxon due to a pill addiction and they looked down on kratom.. but I know I was either gonna end up staying on that crap for even more years or quit and end up back to where i began or find an alliterative path.
Here is a brief history of my addiction.
About 5 years on SAO (short acting opiate) 90 to 120mg a day
That started because I didn't like the A.D.D. meds i was on(diagnosed at very young age, before it became a widespread thing) and the SAO's did what i needed them to do. untill it took over... after trying to quite more times then I'd like to admit. I heard about a suboxon clinic that was opening up near me.
(First let me say I could quite as far as the detox was concerned it was always around 3 to 4 weeks later that I was tired of being lethargic and depressed so ultimately I'd go back to the SAO's).
Anyway I thought that suboxon was a miracle at first, but due to my own lack of research I was completely unaware of how strong suboxon was, i ended up on a large dose for about a year 16 to 24mg
Then dropped to 8mg (still a large dose)

Next thing I knew a few years went past and I was just zombie-fied no emotions not even enjoyment of music.. sad right?
Anyway one morning it just hit me. what is your plan are you gonna be like this for life, this thought scared the shit out of me, so I started to look at tapering plans and joined a forum for just that purpose.
And it worked I got all the way down to .5mg a day, but here's what they don't tell ya when you start subs, even at .5mg due to the extremely long half life and compounding everyday to that halflife, that would be the equivalent of 45mg to 60mg of morphine and would take about 3 to 5 weeks to completely leave your system, so I decided to jump back to SAO's (yeah i know... a scary gamble) i got enough for 21 days never exceeding 60mg and weaning down as I went and only took it like a doctor would subscribe, which was working for the most part, but honestaly some days I could feel the reward system in me going backwards. I was liking it the first dose of the day anyway, but stuck to the plan,but i digress. I'm down to my last two day of them, at 20mg a day and I have some kratom from years ago. To hold me over till I order some from a place I read on here.
But my need to be here is more about strands and amounts for my particular situation. And the other reason would be to have some folks to talk this through.
I'm not sure honestly if I plan to just do the same with kratom as I did with the suboxon and these SAO's or just keep it as a maintenance but for now I'm gonna try to wean down with that as well.
This process of weaning from subs to SAO's to now kratom has been a long journey already 9 months and I don't want to lose what I've gained thus far, I can hear music again, seems small but it's so Hugh for me at the moment.
and I feel good about the will power part but what scares me is the long days of lathagic-ness That would def. Be their if this kratom wasn't an option.
So anyway that's where I'm at
I'm looking for a strain that will help with detox for a week to 14 days.
Then a strain that would help with the 2 week to 30 day point (that's harder and more critical) for me then the first two week, then maybe I'll reassess the A.D.D stuff and also decide if I want to use this as a step down to nothing or as a way of life..
I know that's a lot to unpack
And I get that it's different for everyone
But I'd love to hear your thoughts especially from those who understand this tree/leaf and had similar experiences from the pharmies to this leaf.

I hope my wording and what not is legibal.
Grammar and punctuation/spelling has never been my strong suit.


I'm happy to have found a place that welcomes the views on kratom that's not stuck in a dogma like it seems to be in other forum's
I look forward to your replies
Thank you
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Looking for advice and a place to talk 2 months 4 weeks ago #21200

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Welcome!

I know you will be able to get some help and support here. There has to be members here who have similar situations, and I am sure they will share what they have learned.

I use Kratom for chronic pain so our situations are not similar but I will share what I have learned.

Strains:

Reds are good for pain and sedation, Whites give energy, Greens somewhere in between calming and energizing. I think I would recommend the reds to start as you will get the benefit of some sedation. Lots of users blend the strains but in my opinion it is best to start with single strains so you can get an idea of how each strain works for you.

Kratom can help with coming off some of the drugs you mention BUT you still have to work at it. Sounds like you are very motivated.

Starting dose is recommended at 2 Gms You could start with less if you want and work up to the dose and frequency that works for you. I take 4 Gm 3-5 times per day, averaging 4 times per day. Sometimes I take less BUT I do not take more than 4 Gms because I do not want to build up any tolerance. I need this stuff to work!

It is generally recommended to alternate strains and not take the same strain for too long of a time. It is possible to build up a tolerance to Kratom and need more to get the same results ( just like opiates). I am not convinced the strain rotation prevents this, and we have no real evidence to support that belief but better safe than sorry!

Hopefully learning how to use the kratom to meet your own needs will help you with the lethargy that you said comes on at about 3-4 weeks after getting off the opiates.

And there is nothing wrong with long term use of Kratom. Did you know that the Mitragyna Speciosa tree is in the same family as coffee? LOTS of people use coffee EVERY SINGLE DAY!

This plant helps many people live a better life, without compromising their safety, ability to work, or interpersonal relationships...How can that be wrong?
BEV
"Everybody is talking about pain killers, but nobody is talking about pain."
Last Edit: 2 months 4 weeks ago by bomalley.
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Looking for advice and a place to talk 2 months 4 weeks ago #21201

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Thank you for your reply, I'm glad you found away to deal with your pain without needing the opiate route. even if their is dependence to kratom, still a way healthier way then that pharmy trap..
I emailed someone from COB and they suggested the same as you did. first week try reds, 2nd week switch to green..
So that's what I'm gonna try, however they don't take debit or credit card I guess, so gonna have to figure that out.
Also I grabbed a few benzos for the restless night's i'd prefer not to take them, but if i find myseld needing to get some good sleep so i may continue to work while going through this, I would like to know is there reported to be any issues with kratom in the day and a benzo at night?
Or would it effect the respiratory system?
I not assuming that anyone is a doctor or legally able to give medical advice, however it would be nice to know if that's a big no no or not. If someone knows that would be great.
Anyway thanks again
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Looking for advice and a place to talk 2 months 4 weeks ago #21202

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WELCOME TO THE BEST KRATOM FORUM EVAH, Tao-kakuam!

So good to have you posting here.

I don't think I've seen a thread about subs and kratom. I've done some homework on that med for my ADD (but not) and chronic pain (but not) and my sciatica (but not) and fibromyalgia (but not). Subs were a big possibility for me, and I think you made a good choice by even TRYING that option. Generally, people who try it are very motivated to quit an addiction and unaware of its highly addictive problems ON ITS OWN. It's not well known how much WORSE the detox is yet. Some medical practitioners seem unaware of that HUGE issue. The drug companies LOVE having a lifetime of steady income, so the motive for recommending subs is suspect (especially in rehab programs!). Very unethical to get patients addicted to something more politically acceptable, but that's what's happening as patients are TRUSTING their drs, and drs are trying to treat patients with an acceptable treatment-politically motivated acceptance. But you already know all of this.

Do some searches here for some threads on detox from opiates. We've discussed our various stories at length.

My personal recommendation differs from BoMalley a little (but I'd trust her with my care!). I did the first 12 days without kratom AT ALL (but I had used it enough to know it will be my long term plan). Cold turkey detox. THEN I introduced kratom. I'm finding I probably didn't NEED to wait that 12 days, but I did.

I then used green vein blends mostly, mixed in red for evening, for about 2 weeks. My dosing was not as precise as what BoMalley suggests (she is smarter than I am) and I used kratom more frequently DURING THAT FIRST 2 WEEKS. I did not concern myself with tolerance at that time and I recommend you worry about THAT much later in your journey. I "burned" 1 - 1 1/4 teaspoons every 1-4 hrs as needed to minimize the sweating/freezing, anxiety, and I also incorporated vaping CBD/THC oil for stomach issues to give me an appetite to GET OUT OF BED. Imodium for a couple of days for the GI issues, but kratom has the same effect OR MORE as far as bowel movement is concerned, so HAVE the Imodium but you may not need it.
I also used a low dose benzo at night with no problems (kratom does not have effects to respiration like opiates and benzos).
The 1- 1 1/4 teaspoons was a safe level for me because my opiate tolerance was high, which I imagine yours is (plus I had used kratom WITH opiates initially). My anxiety levels were through the roof and that was exasperated by my trying yellows and whites before I had fully detoxed (I was desperate for energy. But even a cup of coffee was too jittery during that first total 30 days.

Definitely use the reviews to decide where to shop. Try using "contact us" on the websites of the vendors you'd like to try. They cannot prescribe strains for you, but they CAN put samples they think might be of help in your order if they know your purpose. It's a bit of extra trouble to reach out to the vendors personally, but 95% or more of them are in the business because they are passionate about HELPING PEOPLE. Don't ASK them for what they recommend, as it's illegal for them to answer that. TELL THEM YOUR PLAN to get an extra hand of support for your journey.

I hope you find this helpful. My way is NOT the ONLY way. Many members here will undoubtably chime in. And don't forget to use the SEARCH feature for detox stories in depth from not so long ago - now recovering addicts/ kratom users (this includes people who are prescribed meds by drs). It doesn't matter HOW you got addicted. It matters how you SAVE YOURSELF. Don't let the label "addict" get in your way. Many people are addicted by negligence of their own or their drs and pharmacists.

Kratom is controversial. Only YOU will know if it's a botanical you can use responsibly and safely and not in a destructive or abusive manner. Kratom can be very awful to detox from if abused. It can really bite you in the butt if you use too much as well. So these recommendations ASSUME you've tested your tolerance of kratom already. That includes mixing it with multiple medications. Since there are not yet case studies to refer to, you must decide if you wish to continue kratom AFTER the detox. Many people simply don't need to and simply wean off as part of the detox process. Many people, like me, are much better off staying with kratom into perpetuity as a replacement for pharmaceutical medications, but it's not covered by health insurance, so it's not the least expensive route.

There are ways to detox with pharmaceuticals that can be partially or fully paid for by insurance, so look at your finances WHEN YOU GET TO THE LONG TERM PLAN.
Kratom is a great tool to make your journey from addiction much easier and in my case, it deters further destructive use of substances like sugar, alcohol, weed, nootropics, etc. I've learned A LOT about moderate use of botanicals and kratom automatically makes those substances less than tempting. No cravings - which is a BIG HELP when the brain is in shock and trying to TRICK YOU with rationalizations to use again.

Best Wishes and keep us posted on what you're deciding because WE CAN tell you, "Don't try that strain or vendor", but it's not possible to say, "Only use this vendor and this strain". Hope that makes sense.

Congratulations on your decision to save your life AND ENJOY your FUTURE!
Laurie
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Looking for advice and a place to talk 2 months 3 weeks ago #21207

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Good morning, thanks for the welcome and the info Laurie.
If I could manage to shut down from my life/work/family for two weeks I would try that route, but im self employed, own a few rentals and have a very busy life.
You say greens in the day and reds in the night? I'm guessing that means greens have more of an energetic property.
I'm still learning. I only have very limited experience with kratom.
Bought some years ago a sample pack but only used it for a few days, I wasn't ready back then, I still wanted to get high. It's different now..
Not that I wouldn't still like to get high but it's not what controls me.
Yeah their is alot about subs that are bad and the way they are prescribed is completely uncool, however a year or so away from chasing that high is very good for the reward center of the brain, it's nice to take something once a day and be good, just wish I would have done my homework. Anyway that's the past now
And I got what I could from that experience. Side note no one needs to take more then 2mg with the subs if any should find them selves taking that route,
In my humble opinion.
I decided to just start today with the kratom took 1 and maybe an 1/8th teaspoon of bentuangie, not sure what family that is in.
I took it about 20 min ago with my coffee forgot how great that stuff taste lol
Gotta get my day started I'll give an update later.
Day one of kratom ;)
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Looking for advice and a place to talk 2 months 3 weeks ago #21208

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Yes, I found greens vey helpeful for somewhat functioning. Doing a taper, you shouldn't need the 2 weeks of torture :)
You're on the right path. Can't wait to hear how your day went! Hope you packed plenty for your day, too! :)
Laurie
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Looking for advice and a place to talk 2 months 3 weeks ago #21209

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Quick question, you said to find some stories on here of ppl like myself ect.
How do I best navigate this site to say for example if I wanted to read your story?
Also just ordered g.mang and r.mang from COB hope it gets here soon.
The stuff I have is super old and not reds or greens
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Looking for advice and a place to talk 2 months 3 weeks ago #21210

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That old stuff should be good still so long as the bag was sealed. COB is one of the vendors with personal passion to help others. Good selection.
There is a search feature up near the top. Put in opiates or detox as keywords to find our stories. Let me know if that isn't clear enough and I'll try to post a screenshot for you. Scroll up and look just below index, and there is "search" below profile. Lots of words pertaining to utilizing the leaf for opiate withdrawal (another good keyword) can be found in searches.
Laurie
Last Edit: 2 months 3 weeks ago by Laurie.
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Looking for advice and a place to talk 2 months 3 weeks ago #21227

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Only made it half a day at work yesterday spent the rest of the time curl up in a ball, guess their was still enough damage done even with the tapering,
I did find some red vein Borneo in that old sample box..
That helped a little, but still figuring out how much works for me 1tsp doesn't seem to do what I need yet, I took two tsp this morning waiting for it to kick in now
Had a benzo last night slept most of the night that was good, legs and crawling skin was the worst of it, let's see how this red does and maybe the free will be here by the end of the day or tomorrow.
Anyway day two and three is usually worse then day one so will see how I do can take the day off today, I can wed if needed.
I'll try to red some of your stories when I'm later up later
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Looking for advice and a place to talk 2 months 3 weeks ago #21226

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Only made it half a day at work yesterday spent the rest of the time curl up in a ball, guess their was still enough damage done even with the tapering,
I did find some red vein Borneo in that old sample box..
That helped a little, but still figuring out how much works for me 1tsp doesn't seem to do what I need yet, I took two tsp this morning waiting for it to kick in now
Had a benzo last night slept most of the night that was good, legs and crawling skin was the worst of it, let's see how this red does and maybe the green will be here by the end of the day or tomorrow.
Anyway day two and three is usually worse then day one so will see how I do can't take the day off today, I can wed if needed.
I'll try to red some of your stories when I'm laid up later
Last Edit: 2 months 3 weeks ago by Tao-kakuam.
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