07 Feb 2019
Hey everybody,

Over the last 7 years this forum has grown exponentially. With your help, We have created a community of Kratom enthusiasts to come together and discuss the industry. The traffic that this site has received has been exciting but also overwhelming. All the while the site grew a little out of date. Over the last few weeks we have updated the platform of the Forum as well as the face of the forum. CHECK OUT THAT NEW LOGO!!! sweet right?!


We could use your help though...
Read More...
General discussions regarding Kratom and related topics.
(No Vendor or Promotional Material Please)
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3

TOPIC: Have I ruined Kratom for myself permanently?

Have I ruined Kratom for myself permanently? 2 weeks 4 days ago #41952

  • Inaramshead
  • Inaramshead's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Boarder
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 3
  • Thank you received: 52
Hi. I haven't posted here for a while but posted this on other Kratom forums looking for help.

So...I use Kratom recreationally, not for pain, but it does greatly help my anxiety and depression. I've been doing it on and off for a few years, starting and stopping several times. Eventually I got the point about 2 years back where I was really using a REAL lot...3-4 days a week but constantly redosing, getting doses up to 16 grams and sometimes 40-50 grams a day. I then stopped for a year.

When I started again my tolerance was back down around 3 grams, and I did Kratom again for a year, 3-4 days a week, with my tolerance gradually rising from 3 grams a dose to 11 grams. I had to stop because just one single dose would give me withdrawal for days, and that was 6 months ago.

I started again 6 weeks ago, 3-5 days a week, (took 2 weeks off though so not steady), and at first 3 grams was a good dose. Then, within the course of only TWO WEEKS...my tolerance SHOT UP FROM 3 GRAMS A DOSE TO 14 GRAMS A DOSE!!

It was like one day 3.5 grams felt great, then I experimented one day with 5...then 6 was great...suddenly nothing shy of 9 produced any good effects.....you get the point. Now 14-15 grams feels like what a 3.5 gram dose felt like only TWO WEEKS AGO.

It's very depressing. I am being told by people on different forums that this kind of thing happens: something to do with not only down-regulation of opioid receptors but genetics and that it happens with all sorts of mind altering substances. I don't use hard opiates and never will, but one heroin user on a forum said that the same thing happened to him: he'd stop for a year and then if he relapsed his tolerance would shoot back up to what it originally was in a week.

I have tried potentiators like Agmatine, Cats Claw and Black Pepper but they don't work.

A number of people said that this happens with many drugs and that unfortunately in some cases some drugs just stop producing euphoria or good effects anymore and many say about both Kratom and other substances they use that their tolerance will get so high that the negative effects so much outweigh the positives that they have to stop, and that it won't even matter how long they stop for, that at best upon returning they'll have a few weeks where low doses feel good and then their old tolerance returns.

Just a little more background info: I was using what I think was probably far superior Kratom I have but that my friend is holding for me, and he has multiple strains I can try to experiment with, red, green, white etc, to see if I can get the magic back, and since starting again I've only use 2 strains of headshop Kratom, Green Maeng Da and Red Bali, and I know headshop Kratom is often weak, so my hope is that if I use the better kratom my friend has and rotate strains I can get better effect.

Now granted, 14 grams DOES still feel nice for me and produce satisfaction, but my biggest fear is that my tolerance will continue to rise, and that because i don't use daily, the withdrawal will get worse, so that eventually the Kratom will either be useless or produce so much withdrawal for such a small buzz that it is no longer worth it and I have to stop.

So I am looking for any advice to reset my tolerance as much as possible.

A few questions are:

1) If my tolerance goes up, does that necessarily mean that because I need more to feel euphoria, that the withdrawal will be worse? Or is it possible that my WD will not be worse and I'll just need to dose higher for the same effect?

While swallowing more powder is gross and time consuming, if it produces the same effect as less and the withdrawal and side effects are NOT worse by approximation, then it is only a nuissance and I'm fine. But if the WD gets worse along with the tolerance, THAT will be a problem.

2) Do you think that using different strains and my other Kratom which I think is superior will help?

3) Has anyone else had this happen to them before and if so, what did you do? Were you able to reset tolerance and/or continue to enjoy it?

4) Why exactly do you think this is happening? Is it like everyone says: down regulation and genetics, neural pathways worn out etc?

5) What do people think of the idea of using Ultra-Low dose Naltrexone to regain tolerance? I know nothing about it, but a poster on another forum says it can be used to reset opioid tolerance, and I don't know if I should try that or if that is a risky thing to put my body through for this.

finally

6) Do people think I have ruined Kratom for myself permanently, or have I just maybe permanently increased my tolerance, but not to the extent I will necessarily lose all enjoyment of it?

I can accept the fact that the "magic" of how good it used to feel may be gone. Nothing ever feels like when you are new to a substance, and that's okay. I felt good on 14 grams today. What I DON'T want to happen is to lose even that, and for the WD and tolerance to become so unmanagable that I have to give it up permanently because no matter how many months I stop for my tolerance just shoots back up again.


Sorry if this too long. I don't even use Kratom that often, but I just want to be able to enjoy it sometimes when I do.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie, Somethingsacredgoinonhere, Babel-17

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Inaramshead.

Have I ruined Kratom for myself permanently? 2 weeks 4 days ago #41953

  • Babel-17
  • Babel-17's Avatar
  • Away
  • Expert Boarder
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 132
  • Karma: 16
  • Thank you received: 349
"So...I use Kratom recreationally, not for pain, but it does greatly help my anxiety and depression."

You might have luck in taking a break from Kratom by using black seed oil. Supposedly they use it in Afghanistan for opium withdrawal, and its been rising in popularity here in the USA. It's been around "forever", and always had a rep for being like a panacea for what ails one.

Again supposedly, it's said to help in "fixing" ones opioid receptors.

Moving on from that, and back to square one.

"So...I use Kratom recreationally, not for pain, but it does greatly help my <strong>anxiety and depression</strong>."

Kava Kava, and skullcap, are reputed to help a lot with that, and can be affordable (especially the extracts, when bought as a powder, imo). An approved Kratom vendor that's listed here sells skullcap, and I think it provides a good effect.

Ashwagandha is an adaptogen that helps with mood, and it has a good pedigree.

There's also theanine, DLPA for both pain and energy, Lemon Balm, Valerian Root, and Passion Flower extracts.

Some people use St John's Wort, or SAMe (though rarely both as that could lead to a serotonin overload) for depression, and/or a lack of energy.

Rhodiola can be like espresso on steroids for energy and mood.

The supplements above that work on our GABBAA receptors can, over time, lead to some tolerance, but that's not much of an issue for the large majority of people, even when taking them more than once a day. Just follow the recommended doses, and don't combine them, and most people do fine.

Look up "The Mood Cure" and your search will give you lots of leads into what many, many, people are using for the issue you mentioned.

The Mood Cure: The 4-Step Program to Take Charge of Your Emotions--Today by Julia Ross


Kratom hits the opioid receptors and that too can relieve anxiety, so if you treat your anxiety using other means your desire to use Kratom for that effect will be lessened. Just be careful to not start doing the above stuff while getting more dependent on Kratom. They should be used so you can take charge and use less Kratom, or none at all.

You've seen what getting wild with Kratom dosages can do, so if you try any of the supplements I mentioned, be careful and try them one at a time, and don't go over the traditional dosages.

In some people, SAMe can lead to some anxiety until people adjust to its stimulating effect, though after that many people find it helps with anxiety. Start with the smallest ones, and even break your first couple of doses in half so as to see if your susceptible to how it can set some people to bouncing off the walls.

Read up on everything!
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie, GOLDA55, Somethingsacredgoinonhere, Tiggermanscrat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Babel-17.

Have I ruined Kratom for myself permanently? 2 weeks 4 days ago #41958

  • Laurie
  • Laurie's Avatar
  • Away
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Have a better day!
  • Posts: 5091
  • Karma: 92
  • Thank you received: 6150
Welcome back to the forum, Inaramshead!

Bummer news.

You simply gotta stop chasing the dragon.

I attend fellowship meetings for the same problem-with other substances.

The part in chapter 3 of the Big Book is always read to newcomers. I don’t have it memorized like some. It eludes to the hopeless task of trying to “manage our drinking” by only drinking during the day, only after work, only at parties, only when I’m taking a trip, only when I’m not taking a trip, only drinking beer or wine, only 3 glasses, blah blah blah is no way to live.

That’s what you want help with. You need a STAFF to help manage this when you CAN get help and abstain. I would choose the second option. Mind you, I drank for 40 years and it almost killed me - so this may sound rash, but you lose time living EACH DAY. So I jumped to the hard part right away.

Thanks God you are not a chronic pain patient!

I’ve never felt what y’all are finding that is so intoxicating, but ANY SUBSTANCE THAT CONTROLS YOUR LIFE is a problem. Currently I’m looking at SUGAR as a problem and getting help.

By the way, you didn’t ruin kratom. You simply should NOT use it for ANY REASON. It’s not your FAULT. Nobody did anything wrong. You’ll find out LATER IN LIFE what the purpose of learning this lesson was, I promise you that. And it’s not to learn you did anything to your receptors. But LEAVE IT ALONE and get some help while you can use the help. People love helping other people if asked.

That’s it from me. Best wishes and I hope we hear from you without your using kratom to check in. NEXT!
Laurie
The following user(s) said Thank You: Somethingsacredgoinonhere, Tiggermanscrat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Have I ruined Kratom for myself permanently? 2 weeks 4 days ago #41959

  • Laurie
  • Laurie's Avatar
  • Away
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Have a better day!
  • Posts: 5091
  • Karma: 92
  • Thank you received: 6150
Hi again,

I have one more thing to share. I’m ALSO in the Fellowships for my drinking and then narcotic use STILL. This is a LIFELONG problem. I still attend 4-5 meetings MINIMUM per week. I’m not sure WHY I don’t abuse kratom or why not.

I really want to emphasize that it’s not a character defect or a moral defect. It just IS A PROBLEM that you don’t need.

I wish you well. Any help you need, just ask. Except how to MANAGE and MANIPULATE your brain receptors to accommodate abusing kratom.

Anything else. Pm me. Really sorry but you’re among some of the most wonderful people in the world - the world of recovering addicts is AMAZING. You’ll fall in love with the people <3
Laurie
The following user(s) said Thank You: Somethingsacredgoinonhere, Tiggermanscrat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Have I ruined Kratom for myself permanently? 2 weeks 3 days ago #41973

  • Inaramshead
  • Inaramshead's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Boarder
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 3
  • Thank you received: 52

Babel-17 wrote: "So...I use Kratom recreationally, not for pain, but it does greatly help my anxiety and depression."

You might have luck in taking a break from Kratom by using black seed oil. Supposedly they use it in Afghanistan for opium withdrawal, and its been rising in popularity here in the USA. It's been around "forever", and always had a rep for being like a panacea for what ails one.

Again supposedly, it's said to help in "fixing" ones opioid receptors.

Moving on from that, and back to square one.

"So...I use Kratom recreationally, not for pain, but it does greatly help my <strong>anxiety and depression</strong>."

Kava Kava, and skullcap, are reputed to help a lot with that, and can be affordable (especially the extracts, when bought as a powder, imo). An approved Kratom vendor that's listed here sells skullcap, and I think it provides a good effect.

Ashwagandha is an adaptogen that helps with mood, and it has a good pedigree.

There's also theanine, DLPA for both pain and energy, Lemon Balm, Valerian Root, and Passion Flower extracts.

Some people use St John's Wort, or SAMe (though rarely both as that could lead to a serotonin overload) for depression, and/or a lack of energy.

Rhodiola can be like espresso on steroids for energy and mood.

The supplements above that work on our GABBAA receptors can, over time, lead to some tolerance, but that's not much of an issue for the large majority of people, even when taking them more than once a day. Just follow the recommended doses, and don't combine them, and most people do fine.

Look up "The Mood Cure" and your search will give you lots of leads into what many, many, people are using for the issue you mentioned.

The Mood Cure: The 4-Step Program to Take Charge of Your Emotions--Today by Julia Ross


Kratom hits the opioid receptors and that too can relieve anxiety, so if you treat your anxiety using other means your desire to use Kratom for that effect will be lessened. Just be careful to not start doing the above stuff while getting more dependent on Kratom. They should be used so you can take charge and use less Kratom, or none at all.

You've seen what getting wild with Kratom dosages can do, so if you try any of the supplements I mentioned, be careful and try them one at a time, and don't go over the traditional dosages.

In some people, SAMe can lead to some anxiety until people adjust to its stimulating effect, though after that many people find it helps with anxiety. Start with the smallest ones, and even break your first couple of doses in half so as to see if your susceptible to how it can set some people to bouncing off the walls.

Read up on everything!

Thanks.

Well, I should have mentioned that I already take Klonopin and Lexapro for anxiety and depression so some of the things you mentioned I can't take like SamE and St. John's Wort.

However, I think the Lexapro doesn't work so well so I want to try a new med.

Some of the things you've mentioned I have tried with some or no effect. I tried Ashwaghanda and it hasn't worked really, and Kava seems to be never work really either but I have heard there is better Kava out there and you need a good source.

Rhodiola worked once so maybe I'll try agian.

I'll consider some of the other things you mentioned and look up the Mood Cure.

Black Seed Oil is certainly worth considering as I have heard about it but not tried it so I bet I'll order some of that.

Really in truth, my Kratom use is recreational, but the fact that it works better than anything else for anxiety and depression makes it something I wish I could always take.

I'll read your post over though again later and consider your different points.

Thanks.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie, Babel-17

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Have I ruined Kratom for myself permanently? 2 weeks 3 days ago #41974

  • Inaramshead
  • Inaramshead's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Boarder
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 3
  • Thank you received: 52

Laurie wrote: Welcome back to the forum, Inaramshead!

Bummer news.

You simply gotta stop chasing the dragon.

I attend fellowship meetings for the same problem-with other substances.

The part in chapter 3 of the Big Book is always read to newcomers. I don’t have it memorized like some. It eludes to the hopeless task of trying to “manage our drinking” by only drinking during the day, only after work, only at parties, only when I’m taking a trip, only when I’m not taking a trip, only drinking beer or wine, only 3 glasses, blah blah blah is no way to live.

That’s what you want help with. You need a STAFF to help manage this when you CAN get help and abstain. I would choose the second option. Mind you, I drank for 40 years and it almost killed me - so this may sound rash, but you lose time living EACH DAY. So I jumped to the hard part right away.

Thanks God you are not a chronic pain patient!

I’ve never felt what y’all are finding that is so intoxicating, but ANY SUBSTANCE THAT CONTROLS YOUR LIFE is a problem. Currently I’m looking at SUGAR as a problem and getting help.

By the way, you didn’t ruin kratom. You simply should NOT use it for ANY REASON. It’s not your FAULT. Nobody did anything wrong. You’ll find out LATER IN LIFE what the purpose of learning this lesson was, I promise you that. And it’s not to learn you did anything to your receptors. But LEAVE IT ALONE and get some help while you can use the help. People love helping other people if asked.

That’s it from me. Best wishes and I hope we hear from you without your using kratom to check in. NEXT!


Hi Laurie, well thank you for your response, and I can tell you care, and I am glad you were able to get control of your drinking problem, but unfortunately I have to disagree with you on some things.

When I first joined this forum it did seem like it might be one of the ones which sort of shunned recreational Kratom use a bit more than others, which I don't really like.

My thing is that while yes, I admit to being an addict with many substances, I do not believe there is anything wrong with choosing to use substances recreationally, even binging on them, with the exception of course to any ways they negatively effect the quality of your life, physical and/or mental health, and also perhaps of those very close to you.

Now, while I will admit that Kratom has done this in the past when I have had withdrawal, and that certain other substances have done this as well at times, I have also had great relief from the negative symptoms of my mental health problems and great enjoyment from both Kratom and other substances used recreationally, and i don't believe it's wrong to use substances recreatinonally.

It's especially difficult also for us people who also have mental health problems like anxiety and depression, because very often those same substances which we find enjoyable recreationally can at times help with our mental illnesses, and at other times make our problems worse, so it becomes difficult to draw the line between abstaining completely, moderation, or using in excess, and hard to figure out if we are using them more for fun or more for self medicating.

That being said, I believe there is nothing wrong with self-medicating and that some people can effectively help themselves as much as a doctor could by finding a substance that works for themselves.

So all that being said: has Kratom (and other substances) negatively effected me more than it has helped?

Yes I would say so.

And in general would I not be better off abstaining?

Yes I would agree.

But SHOULD ANYONE ELSE TELL ANYONE THAT THEY SHOULD ABSTAIN OR THAT USING SOMETHING FOR RECREATION IS WRONG?

NO.

And really, doing that kind of thing doesn't usually work either as people usually have to find those things out the hard way. I'm not so young myself at 39 this year, and I've done this song and dance with a number of substances, abstaining from some of them for years, quitting others permanently, returning to others later, and seen my naturally changing attitudes towards some over time.

So with all due respect, I don't believe anyone should tell anyone else that they should or shouldn't use a substance, and I don't necessarily think anyone other than a trained professional can know whether or not that substance is of more benefit to a person or is more harmful.

I am just REALLY REALLY anti-drug laws and anti-anyone making anyone go to treatment and very "pro-drug" in the sense that I think drugs are just objects like anything else and they have good uses, bad uses and neutral uses.

I can use too much of a drug and mess myself up and then IF I WANT TO I should have treatment available, BOTH to help me moderate OR to help me abstain, and if I want help moderating I should be able to get that, or if I DON'T want to stop no one should tell me, or I can stop for a while and try it again.

I mean again, I am an addict, but drugs are fun a lot of the time LOL AND can also be useful, and so I believe in being honest with myself about the ways in which the drugs negatively effect me and how they have helped me, and then make my own decisions, and even if a decision to use a drug might not be the right one, I very much believe in my own right to make bad decisions regarding my own body since it is mine and I don't believe others should tell us what to do with our own bodies.

AA and NA can be very beneficial for some people, but they can also be overly preachy, and i don't like the preachy aspect.

Then you also have to consider that I already take medicatons, Klonopin and Lexapro, and they have some negative effects too, but it's just that Klonopin has no recreational effect for me.

But what if I got recreational pleasure from my Klonopin? (I don't)...would it then be immoral or wrong for me to use it because I get high off of it but it ALSO helps my anxiety??

No it would not be wrong.

Likewise, if a person chooses to take Kratom as their medicine and it works for them for their conditions but also gives them a buzz...it's not morally wrong.

But again....yes it is true that Kratom has had more negative effects for me than positive, but that is not what this thread was about, it was only about loss off positive effects and trying to figure out how to get them back, which is what I'd like help with.

And the thing is, I also don't believe that doctors are necessarily the ones who should decide how we choose to treat our issues: if we want to self-medicate, we should have the right to do so, and actually, I wish more doctors would be more willing to help patients who choose to self-medicate with different substances to do so more safely.

So yeah...I hope you realize I still appreciate your responding to my post, but I am just very much against anyone telling anyone else what to put or not put in their bodies, and very much believe that it is natural to use substances for recreation. Since the dawn of time people have used substances recreationally, but that is not the only reason I've used Kratom.

I mean, some people even choose a shorter lifespan or are willing to have more physical pain for the pleasures that certain substances can provide, and while I would not generally do so and that is generally a sign of mental health not being so great.....I just very much feel that substances are something we have to make our own choices about, and that whether they benefit us or not, it is most important to be honest with ourselves, and otherwise, no one should impose limits on what we should put in our own bodies.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Inaramshead.

Have I ruined Kratom for myself permanently? 2 weeks 3 days ago #41975

  • Inaramshead
  • Inaramshead's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Boarder
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 3
  • Thank you received: 52

Laurie wrote: Hi again,

I have one more thing to share. I’m ALSO in the Fellowships for my drinking and then narcotic use STILL. This is a LIFELONG problem. I still attend 4-5 meetings MINIMUM per week. I’m not sure WHY I don’t abuse kratom or why not.

I really want to emphasize that it’s not a character defect or a moral defect. It just IS A PROBLEM that you don’t need.

I wish you well. Any help you need, just ask. Except how to MANAGE and MANIPULATE your brain receptors to accommodate abusing kratom.

Anything else. Pm me. Really sorry but you’re among some of the most wonderful people in the world - the world of recovering addicts is AMAZING. You’ll fall in love with the people <3



Well, thank you, but what I am interested in is learning to regain the positive effects of Kratom, and while I have considered goign to NA (in fact, I have been there before and will probably go back), if I do go back, I will never allow people there to preach to me or tell me what i should or should not put in my body.

That has always been a reason I have not wanted to go to NA: because I don't like how AA and NA preach.

It is one thing to offer help and support to a person WHEN THEY ASK FOR IT, but it is another entirely to tell someone what they should or should not put in their own bodies.

I also do not agree with the concept of "abusing" a substance and have never liked that term.

A person can be "abused" IMO, but a substance cannot.

There is nothing morally wrong with using a substance for its' pleasurable effects, just as there is nothing wrong with eating for its' pleasurable effects vs only to survive, or sex only for its' pleasurable effects vs to procreate: people were naturally made this way and various plants put on this earth for us to respect but enjoy with caution, and native americans and indigenous peoples have enjoyed substances since the dawn of time.

But as a final point on AA/NA actually: my brother is in AA and he actually said that the guy who wrote the AA book and founded it specifically said he DOES NOT tell people "not to drink" and that one thing he said is basically "Ok, so you want to drink? FINE. DO DRINK. Then tell me how it works, and if it works for you, then fine, and if not, then stop."

So THAT I very much agree with.

And while yes, it is true I have not been able to moderate well with Kratom, my choice to use it sometimes is a choice a reserve as mine to make.

That is why I stopped for a year at one point, then 3 months at another, then 6 at another, etc.

I am pretty good at abstinence, just not moderation, but I have done this same song and dance with many other substances, and in general that's what I tend to do: I like to have periods of complete abstinence from different substances, and then when I decide I want to try them again I will, and if it gets too hectic and I want to stop then I'll weigh the benefits vs negative effect and either stop for a short time, or a long time and decide how long I want to stop, etc.

I don't like to PERMANENTLY quit most substances I have used. I prefer to take a long time, sometimes even years off with certain substances like with marijuanna in my past, then return IF I feel like it.

Yes, substances can be harmful, but they can also be beneficial, and even if an addict is self-aware enough to recognize that certain substances are 100% harmful to him, I still believe he should reserve his right to use them IF he wishes.

I am just very anti--typical drug propaganda with us telling eachother what to put in our own bodies.

I'd prefer we return to a more natural way of viewing things, more akin to native americans.

I'd sum it up as "is that "thing" (not even use the word "drug") making you feel sick? If so, maybe stop. But if you want to continue even despite it making you sick, then go ahead. Maybe try it again in the future and see if it still makes you sick, and if you continue to make yourself sick the wise choice is probably to stop forever, but the choice is still yours..."s

So once again, thank you for caring.

I will probably continue this discussion on bluelight and Reddit and other forums that recongize a bit more the natural inclination of people to want to use substances for recreation, without placing negative moral value judgments on recreational substance use.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Inaramshead.

Have I ruined Kratom for myself permanently? 2 weeks 3 days ago #41976

  • Inaramshead
  • Inaramshead's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Senior Boarder
  • Senior Boarder
  • Posts: 42
  • Karma: 3
  • Thank you received: 52
Laurie,

I also wanted to say that I think maybe it's unfortunate that my guess is you have probably never used a psychedelic like psilocybin mushrooms, DMT, Ayahuasca, LSD or Ibogaine.

I think then maybe you'd understand a bit more why people go looking to substances, since you said you didn't understand it, and while they are often stigmatized along with other substances, psychedelics are non-addictive and most of them not physically harmful or the kind of drugs a typical addict craves for, but they will open your mind regarding certain things.

If I had more access to psilocybin mushrooms I think I might not crave Kratom, and it's been recognized as effective for depression but is not legal unfortuately. Ibogaine also helps with heroin addiction.

I also am not a good defender or recreational substance use cause I myself am an addict, but I have many friends who ARE able to use substances in moderation or in such a way that they don't mess up their lives. People who work 9-5 and only use substances like marijuanna, alcohol, some psychedelics or MDMA on the weekends and then stop once the week starts and keep everything together. I wish I was more like them, and I have been at times in life, but I think NA/AA preach AS IF THOSE PEOPLE DO NOT EXIST...and as if NO ONE can moderate with substances, and that helps them with their hardline stance that EVERYONE NEEDS TO STOP ALL DRUGS AND DRINKING! when in fact that isn't always the case.

I just don't agree with the pedantic immoral preachings of our society against any and all recreational substance use.

While NA and AA CAN be great at times, I believe they are still tied to the very same society that keeps drugs illegal and who are currently trying to make Kratom illegal.

It's these same people who preach that everyone who uses a recreational drug needs to enter NA who are out there lobbying to get Kratom scheduled because if it can even POSSIBLY be enjoyable then it MUST be banned!!

Kratom obviously has great medical uses and can also be pleasurable, and there's nothing wrong with the latter either.

I just can't get on board with the way our current society views substance use, and it kind of goes hand in hand with religious preaching as well, and I'm not big on organized religion.

I think in a perfect world ALL substances, even the hardest ones which I have never used and never will, would be legal for adults 18 and over so long as they are in the privacy of their own homes and not driving a car.

I think we need to remember that substance use preceded the war on drugs which only began in the 1930s.

Harmful or not, I believe in cognitive liberty and the rights of everyone to decide what they want to put into their own bodies and how they would like to experiment with their consciousness, and THEN if they want help it should be welcome to them, but NOT under the current narrative that AA and NA often preach. I'll probably go back to NA myself at some point, but any of the members who speak as if I'm a child with his hand caught in the cookie jar I will choose to ignore.

Take care.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Inaramshead.

Have I ruined Kratom for myself permanently? 2 weeks 3 days ago #41978

  • Somethingsacredgoinonhere
  • Somethingsacredgoinonhere's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Posts: 954
  • Karma: 28
  • Thank you received: 2606
Inaramshead... good morning

I can relate to how you feel about substances and the choices every adult has a right to make... i know Lauries words were out of concern for your saftey and your personal well being .... def caring words , I know this ...

My thoughts on getting the magic back is by sticking to a low dose standard and not bumping of the amount at all costs. I used to take 1 Tbs per dose and feel like the full benefits were not as consistent as I know they can be .. now I take 2 tsp and have great beneficial effects... as you may already know with Kratom less is more .... I suggest taking a little break and if you choose to use Kratom again to keep doses small to get big benefits more consistently.. accepting that some doses regardless of size are going to not be spot on.. because Kratom is like that... between personal chemistry, metabolism that changes frequently combined with perhaps the medications you take ...sticking to a low dose is the way to go , itbtook me 2 years to accept what I already knew .. less is more ... more will give you less of what you want, it’s a trip but it’s true ,
Please let us know what route you take , thank you for sharing your story and I hope the magic comes back if you stick to utilizing Kratom.....

Take care
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie, Tiggermanscrat, Babel-17

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Have I ruined Kratom for myself permanently? 2 weeks 3 days ago #41979

  • Babel-17
  • Babel-17's Avatar
  • Away
  • Expert Boarder
  • Expert Boarder
  • Posts: 132
  • Karma: 16
  • Thank you received: 349
Just checking that you tried a good Ashwagandha, one that was standardized for its withanolides. It's effects can be subtle, though some users claim the improvement they felt from it is profound. I used to take it regularly but I dropped it from my rotation because I take so much stuff.

But on Amazon's Prime Day I scored a bottle of what is arguably the best you can get, and for an OK price. Gaia Herbs makes it.

I buy DLPA (DL-Phenylalanine) by the kilo, and it's cheap and effective in working as advertised. A gram and a half twice a day, so I get a year out of a kilo. Just gotta take aminos on an empty stomach, and generally not take them together (though some can be combined). DLPA is a good way to start the day.

I finally started checking into what's up with the newer nootropics, and related products. So I'm taking Noopept (10 mg. doses! The "spoon" I have for that is minute), and Fasoracetam.

Though with any racetam you have to up your intake of choline (otherwise headaches), and so I take powdered lecithin, for its choline and inositol.

I have no connection to any company, but here are the top reviews for that Gaia Ashwagandha:

Ashley Maria
5.0 out of 5 stars
Calms fight or flight response.
January 13, 2018
Size: 120 CountPackage Type: Standard Packaging Verified Purchase
I have bought so many supplements to help deal with my hypervigilance and nothing has helped me as much as ashwagandha has. Social situations are extremely painful for me because I feel like I am in a constant state of fight or flight. This herb has taken away a majority of these feelings after a couple days of taking it. I just cant believe that I have found something that finally helps, I am blown away. Now when I am in social situations, my heart doesn't race, and I don't feel scared or like running away. I'm just chill and relaxed.
167 people found this helpful
Helpful

Dancing Bones
5.0 out of 5 stars
Bippity Boppity Boo
October 20, 2017
Size: 60 Count Package Type: Standard Packaging Verified Purchase
I am 72 years old and have had a lifetime of clinical depression-anger problems, under good control, but sometimes things go a bit awry. I started taking this because it was prescribed by a psychiatrist for a foster child who had PTSD from years of trauma, and I decided to try it myself.

The ashwaghanda, while not Fairy Godmother magical, is so effective that I intend never to be without my 2-a-day. It settles things nicely, and leeps me from reacting with anxiety or negativity to the many trial and surprises that life can bring. I heartily recommend this for anyone looking for a gentle smile-maker.
121 people found this helpful
Helpful

Debbie Chandler
5.0 out of 5 stars
I was AMAZED. When I ran out
April 16, 2017
Size: 60 Count
Package Type: Frustration-Free Packaging
Verified Purchase
After 2 years of breaking into a sweat upon waking every morning, and if I woke in the middle of the night, I read online that Ashwagandha was helpful with peri-menopausal symptoms such as hot flashes. Within 5 days of taking Gaia Ashwagandha twice per day my night sweats were gone! I was AMAZED. When I ran out, I was too busy and kept forgetting to go buy another bottle. My night sweats didn't start back up again for 5 weeks. That just goes to show the lasting healing power of this herb. My local health food store was out of Gaia when I went in to buy another bottle so I bought the NOW brand. After 10 days my night sweats hadn't gone away. I returned it to the store and bought Gaia. And guess what? I'm good again. Gaia is truly a high quality brand.
109 people found this helpful
Helpful
Comment Report abuse
Julia
5.0 out of 5 stars
AMAZING
September 16, 2018
Size: 120 Count
Package Type: Standard Packaging
Verified Purchase
Ok so this natural medicine is a miracle! I used to have anxiety and panic attacks multiple times a day! I also have sleeping disorder-I think I have tried everything possible! For 5 years I have been taking zzquil and the discoverer that it can be a trigger to anxiety the next day. So I stopped. My panic attacks didn’t get any better so I had to turn into a prescription drug. I wasn’t taking a large dosage but I did understand that with time over the years it will need to be increased since my body will adapt. The thought of living with anxieties was horrifying as well as the thought of taking prescription medication. I started my research and came across an article which suggested ashwagandha as one of the solutions! So I placed an order online and same day I stopped with my prescription. It took about 2 days to receive this product so you can imagine that I was struggling. The very same day I took my first pill of ashwagandha-magic happened! I haven’t had a panick attack in 2 weeks! I feel absolutely normal and happy. This herb doesn’t have any affects that you can physically feel. It just simply took away my anxiety! I combine it with valeriana root to sleep at night. I still don’t understand why so many people are buying expensive and harmful pharmaceuticals while there is an alternative? Why doctors don’t suggest natural remedies first(in some cases)? Anyhow-try and you will be amazed! Hopefully it will help you and your life can be much more enjoyable! Good luck!
Read more
72 people found this helpful
Helpful

robert titus
5.0 out of 5 stars
This really takes the edge off of anxiety,
October 21, 2017
Size: 120 Count
Package Type: Standard Packaging
Verified Purchase
This really takes the edge off of anxiety, it takes a couple weeks for your body to get used to it so give it time
62 people found this helpful
Helpful

Ketty
TOP 1000 REVIEWER
5.0 out of 5 stars
Great for stress and anxiety!
April 16, 2017
Size: 60 Count
Package Type: Frustration-Free Packaging
Verified Purchase
I take Ashwagandha for stress and anxiety. The Gaia brand pills is very easy to take and potent. My boyfriend and I had a stressful weekend (his car broke down yesterday and he has a huge end of the semester paper to write for class due in 12 hours that he didn't even start). In general we are both very anxiety prone people, and I got stressed because he was stressed. We each took 1 capsule and felt better within 30 minutes, calmed down, and boyfriend is now happily writing his paper.

In general, ashwagandha (not specifically the gaia brand) helps tremendously with social anxiety. I've taken it the morning of job interviews. It helped me answer stressful questions and talk to people.
55 people found this helpful

The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie, Somethingsacredgoinonhere, Tiggermanscrat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
Moderators: kemppaulh
Time to create page: 0.053 seconds

Forum Support

If you're interested in advertising on the site or having any trouble with any function of the forum, please drop us a line.

Contact Us