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TOPIC: Step By Step, dosing for a newbie

Step By Step, dosing for a newbie 1 year 4 months ago #11255

  • jamibad
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He everyone, I started my topic as a new kratom user under the topic burning, than a second topic burning, and how much! I decided to move to a new topic and wasn't sure where or how to go about it. I've learned a lot so far, but am still wondering about dosing and coming off the pain pills. Maybe I should of kept the other topic going on burning, but it doesn't seem right for what I need to know, and maybe no one will look or read that topic because they know what burning is, or have no interest in it. So this is why I moved to a new topic title, getting more people involved in my discussion and getting some answers! I did a little cut and paste so I didn't have to type so much, my fingers hurt, I get a lot of nerve pain down my arms for my cervical spine due to the titanium plate in my spine! So if anyone thinks they read this before, they did! I just edited it for here! Thanks for understanding, and if I did this wrong, let me know, please!!! I don't want to be in the wrong!

I'm going step by step doing what it takes to quit opiates permanently, and I'm looking for guidance to help me achieve this first goal. The next step would be maintenance after I'm finished going through the wd's from morphine,30mg's 1 every 6 hours for break through pain, and the fentanyl patch 75mg every 48 hours! ( I've already quit that a little over a week ago) I'm a 115 lb woman with degenerative disc disease among other medical problems and Ive been on all kinds of opiates since 2007. This gives you an idea of what I'm facing and what I've been using, all doctor prescribed of course. With all the new FDA, CDC and DEA guidelines, and reading about doctors all of a sudden cutting down their patients or cutting them off completely of their pain medications I'm scared to death of being in their shoes. My doctor with pain management hasn't addressed anything with me yet, but every month when I go to him, I'm scared to death. This isn't the way a person should feel going to see a doctor, and I decided to see what other options I have! I've taken a sabbatical before from my pain meds because my tolerance got so high, I wasn't getting any relief from them, I did cold turkey once and ended up in the ER and was admitted for 10 days, very very sick. I also tried the suboxone route, too expensive even with insurance, because the doctors don't take your insurance. I payed $500. for the first visit, and than $175. every 2 weeks after. What was the killer, a script for the subs was $90.00 with insurance, my co-pay. If the doctor would have wrote me a script for the full 30 days it would have cost me $90, but he wrote it every 2 weeks, so it was considered 1 script, not a partial, so I paid $90 each script, $180. a month!! Never again! And I didn't have a problem coming off that, I weaned myself, and had no problem. Of course, with the pain I have daily, it wasn't long till I was put back on the opiates, the only good thing was I could start out with the lower doses again and work my way back up. A hell of a way to live! Anyway, this is my story so far, and now I've found my lifesaver! If everything I've heard about Kratom I hope never to go back to opiates, I want someone, anyone who has the experience of doing this step by step, I'd appreciate your way of doing it. I know it may or may not work for me, but at least I know I'm on the right path to opiate freedom!

Normally I have my usual morphine pill, which I used the last one yesterday morning. I felt the wd's coming on and burned 2 of my Thai 20X capsules and laid back down, felt nothing, so I got up and did 2 caps of the Thai Md, both green strains. These came from a vendor I found before I found this forum. ( I've since ordered my next supply from SoCal Herbal ) In a little while I felt a warm rush come over me, and felt a little better, but had not an ounce of energy, in addition my body ached like I had a little case of the flu. I decided to get up and make my coffee, using some powder, a Green Maeng Da, I measured out a tsp. about 30 minutes later I felt a little better but still had no energy, so my next cup I used some White Sumatra, both from SoCal. By than I felt a little energy coming on, so I got up and played with my dogs a little, but just didn't have that zest/motivation that I got from the pain pills. I guess this would be normal, It's only a been a little over a week since starting the kratom, I already kicked the fentanyl to the curb, so a little discomfort should be expected. I did another dose about 3 hours later of the White Sumatra to maintain myself,and get some energy and I'm going to try a different strain next dose. I've been writing down my schedule, what I'm burning,and how I feel from it. My question is I've got to think about a way to use this stuff in the morning which is the worse part of my day. Here's the problem, I could buy the capsule machine, and put the powder in a capsule, but they're hard to swallow, I have a 3 tier titanium plate in my cervical spine, C-3 through C-7. When I take any kind of pill, I kind of hold my neck up, similar to a baby bird waiting for the worm, to get the pills down. Taking 6-7 capsules is really hard for me at one time. Could I make an ice tea with the powder for in the mornings? I read that people make tea, and saw some recipe's for it. If I do this, I'd use my coffee maker and strain the powder through the filter as someone suggested. How long can I keep it, will it lose it's potency,and what would be the amounts to use water and kratom? I already figured out I'll need the higher doses till I get back to feeling normal. If I would have taken 6 caps first thing this morning, I might have fared better than I did, but I just couldn't get them all down at one time. The other thing was I had no energy, none at all, sluggish most of the day, even now at 5:45. I'm normally a hyper person, and my brain goes and goes, my body wants to go and go too, but today was different. The sumatra hardly gave me a lift at all. I'm aware that less is better, and am afraid of taking to much as that goes the opposite way making you feel relaxed and sometimes sleepy! I have a red strain for that, and really don't need that one right now! lol!!
To help out , I'm going to list what I got from SoCal, maybe that'll help someone help me knowing what I have on hand, to mix or match, or what to start out with. What does what, get the idea? I'm also aware that we're all different so what works for one, may not work for another, but being a newbie anything I try is worth it to me!
I have: 1 oz of White Sumatra, 250 grams of White Agatha, 125 grams of Green Maeng Da, 125 grams of Green Hula Kapuas, 4oz of Premium Green Thai, 4oz of Premium Bali (red) and 1gram of Green Vein 12:1 extract, plus They gave me, a surprise , 0.5 grams of Elephant!! :-bd I wanted to order some but they were out, so in the comment section on the order form, I asked them to e-mail me when they got some in, and surprise, surprise when my order came! The reasons I orderd the way I did, was some weights they didn't have on hand, so I ordered what they did have, and some of what others talked about on here, they were out of, so I kind of read the comments and ordered depending on what their clients/customers said about the product. I didn't go in blind and just picked, thanks to the discussions on here I was able to get an idea of what to choose!I think I got a nice selection to get started and if I'm missing something you all think I should try, let me know. I'm going to take my next topic to the right place on here for a new discussion to continue my education! Thanks again everyone!

PS, another thought I had, I've seen different verbiage used for different words and what not, but is it ok to talk about how one uses it? What words to use, here again being new, I read the terms and agreed to the rules and really don't want to be in trouble for saying something wrong. It's kind of new and I'm just not sure sometimes and am trying to be careful. polite and politically correct! Thanks here again for teaching me what and what not to say! Boy Oh Day , with the government involved in our everyday life, I sometimes feel like I'm walking on egg shells what happened to freedoms we use to have, and seem to be losing everyday! Next they'll be banning hot dogs as a choking hazard! lol! Love to you all! Have a great evening, and I look forward to some useful knowledge to keep me going forward! Thanks!
God Bless, Have a Great Day! Jami
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Step By Step, dosing for a newbie 1 year 4 months ago #11257

  • msolis
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Oh my goodness Jamibad! I'm sorry you're having it so rough right now. I have been there with the withdrawals from both opiets and suboxone. It really is a terrible experience but the good news is, it gets better each day. You have to hang in there and keep reminding yourself why you want off all of it.
You're first problem is you're not taking enough at once. If you keep dosing up every hour and taking different strains, you won't be able to tell what has helped you and what doesn't work. I know you want immediate relief but you have to give it time to work.
I'm not a doctor so I'm just telling you what worked for me. The problem with the long term pain meds is you have built up a heavy tolerance to them and the opioid receptors in your brain will take quite some time to adjust to all this. This is also the part of your brain that produces the chemicals serotonin and dopamine which are your body's natural pain relievers and also causes you to experience joy. This is why you are feeling robbed of it all right now. Your body hasn't been producing them because the pain meds has kept them inactive for so long. This will take time to heal but you WILL get it all back.
I would take 6 grams of green Maeng da in the morning and that would stop all the withdrawal symptoms and also give me a boost of energy and much better mood. Mid afternoon I would take another 4 grams of the green and that would hold me over until night time. Then I would take 6 grams of a red strain like indo or hulu and this would get me through the night. You will have to maintain this for a few weeks until your body starts to recover. Keep in mind that you have a high tolerance and you also need pain relief so you may need to take a little more but this is the part that only you can answer as everyone has different needs.
The main thing though is to not bounce all over with your dosing and different strains. This would only make it more confusing and even worse won't help you. Unlike pain pills, with kratom less is more and you just need to be patient while you determine your own personal needs. You can and will do it!!
There are also a lot of supplements you could take like DLPA, passion flower, valerian root, etc...these all helped me a great deal.
I know you still have questions and I will be happy to help you more. Please send me a private message if you need to and I can get you my email where I can respond a little quicker if that helps you. I don't have all the answers and this is only what helped me through weeks of hell. Hang in there, we will all try to help as much as we can. Only you can determine what's best for you and you may find you still need to continuse with your doctor as you wind all this down.
Also, with your pain meds you should begin a slow taper down and not quit all at once with the amounts you're taking. That will help keep things manageable.
Good luck! ;)
You get out what you put in....
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Step By Step, dosing for a newbie 1 year 4 months ago #11259

  • msolis
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I forgot to mention, I have the exact green Maeng da from SoCal and that my go to strain in the mornings. I usually disolve it in just a little hot water then top off with orange juice. In 10-15 minutes I'm feeling like a million bucks. I wouldn't recommend the coffee mix you were talking about. That would be better with leaf form not powder and you will lose potency. I know it tastes bad but only for a minute and well worth it. You can mix the powder in just about anything you wish that makes it taste better to you but it's just as easy to just get it down and over with. Hang in there!!
You get out what you put in....
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Step By Step, dosing for a newbie 1 year 4 months ago #11260

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:x When I wake tomorrow, I'll follow your instructions, I'll take 6 grams, have it mixed up and ready to go, with something to wash it down afterwards! Do you suggest I keep on using a little bit of pain medicine? I'm out of the pills, but still have the fentanyl, I'd really hate to put it back on! I think I can really do this, even with discomfort, it's well worth it! My next pain management appt. is the 12th of this month, I'm planning on going one last time, and discuss somethings with the doctor, don't want to piss him off, but than again, I think to myself, why bother, temptation down the road! This has been a long struggle for me, between cold turkey, and suboxone,I think I've made my body suffer enough! I'm writing this while I do the detox sniffle, lol, my nose is running like crazy, I'll do the dose tonight of the red and hopefully get through the night! and wake up to the other one! Anyway, I'll let you know tomorrow how things go, and will get you my e-mail! Right now I'm having a hard time concentrating! I just wanted to acknowledge your message, and I'm so thankful! I'm following your instructions to a T, I have a kitchen food scale, so no problem there. I think I read a tbs is almost 6 grams, not sure, but I'll figure it out! Thanks so much once again, you don't know how grateful I am! I'll be back here tomorrow! Thank you again!!
God Bless, Have a Great Day! Jami
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Step By Step, dosing for a newbie 1 year 4 months ago #11261

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OMG, hope you see this tonight, LOL! How much is 6 grams on my scale, i never thought about it, it only measures ounces, and I can't think straight at this point, I think someone said a tbs, I think I'm repeating myself, anyway I thinks .02 as in a quarter, darn! Feeling pretty stupid, not really, just a phrase! Looking for your answer! Thanks!!
God Bless, Have a Great Day! Jami
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Step By Step, dosing for a newbie 1 year 4 months ago #11262

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never mind, I found the answer, someone had already posted it in the other topic, 3-4 grams is in a teaspoon! I know I'm tired and very irritable, but I found the answer! Thanks again! I'll be ok! Really! Thanks, and I'll chat tomorrow on how it went tonight!!
God Bless, Have a Great Day! Jami
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Step By Step, dosing for a newbie 1 year 4 months ago #11263

  • msolis
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Yes, a tablespoon is 6 grams.
1 teaspoon is 2 grams.

If you can manage, don't take the pain meds but remember I'm not a doctor and only you know your body and how you're doing. You want to keep the withdrawal process as comfortable as you can but you also don't want to go backwards. A slow taper is the best way but if you're out then not much you can do. The next few days are critical ones for you and I can tell you personally it can be done and kratom makes all the difference. Once youve taken your dose and calmed down then send me a private message if you'd like to. Hang in there!!!
You get out what you put in....
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Step By Step, dosing for a newbie 1 year 4 months ago #11267

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Hey Jamibad. I recently got off of suboxone. Kudos to you for kicking the fentanyl to the curb. It's not easy but it is so worth it.
Msolis gave you great advice. I just wanted to chime in on the tea. I'm a barista so I've been playing with Kratom with espresso. The espresso machine is the same concept as a coffee machine. It doesn't have near the same effect as just choking it down. I boil water in a tea pot then add it to my Kratom. To help with the taste I add honey or raw sugar. The old Mary Poppins song, "a spoonful of sugar helps the medicine go down" rings in my head. To cool it off a little milk or half & half. I've even added the instant cappuccino powder. All those things help with the taste. After a month I'm over the taste and am going to start putting it in caps. Online Kratom has an option to buy Kratom in caps for the same price as the loose powder.
Everybody on the forum is so helpful. Kratom is a very personal plant. What works for me may not work with you. One of my big things is an empty stomach as possible. I always get the best burns first thing in the am. I've started planning my meals around Kratom doses.
On the forum there is a Kratom Bible. It talks about the strains & colors and has a chart of how long WD symptoms are for various pills. From Norco to methadone. Anytime I was up late, struggling, and the other forum members were asleep, that link saved me. It's in the Kratom User's guide on the forum.
The search option on here is great too. Most questions have been asked so search for your keyword like, teaspoons and it will pop up.
Hope you have a good week. :-bd
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Step By Step, dosing for a newbie 1 year 4 months ago #11270

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Teaspoons can vary quite a bit but usually 1 full teaspoon is around 4 Grams. That's what I've always heard from Kratom Connoisseurs. It can vary quite a bit depending on the Teaspoon that you use but if you measure a full Teaspoon it's around 4 Grams.

kratompowders.org/how-much-kratom-powder-to-take/
If anybody has any Questions about Kratom please private message me & I will be glad to answer as soon as I can.
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Step By Step, dosing for a newbie 1 year 4 months ago #11272

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Great info on the tea/coffee combos glitterwitch! I confess I haven't experimented much with them but hey, we would all love a way to mellow out the bitterness.
Hope you made it through the night ok jamibad. I can still easily recall going through all the withdrawals and it sucked so bad! All the great people helped me so much through a bad time on here and I can only hope to pay it forward sometime.
Let us know how you're doing, remember it only gets better from here. There are so many great people with great advise on ILK forum. Just remember to use it all as a guide on your way to finding out what works best for you. You have some great strains from a great vendor and that's half the battle! ;)
You get out what you put in....
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