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TOPIC: Need help on dosage for chronic pain

Need help on dosage for chronic pain 2 months 2 weeks ago #28488

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Hi everyone! Really hoping someone could let me know how to decide dosage. My father suffers from a few different things. Main being chronic Psoriatic arthritis. He can't take a lot of pharmaseutical anti inflmmatory medications due to COPD, so has been on Prednisone for 5 or 6 years. Due to its horrible side effects he would like to get off it if he can. His joint pain moves from all of his joints, and due to pain and lack of doing anything he also battles depression and anxiety. I ordered some Kratom for him and he tried it today for a knee flare, I'm just not sure how to re dose when he takes it. He took 3 grams, then 30 mins later took 2 grams, and did that every half hour until he got to 10. He felt bo effects. So we arent sure where to go from here. Would he then wait 5 hours and try the 10 at once? Its late now but hes going to try again in the morning. As of now, he believes i ordered gim ground up lawn clippings. Lol any tips would be helpful on how to do this. The higher dose as hes been on and off different pain killers for years. He is also a medicinal marijuana user.
Please help if you can? (We're in Canada)
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Need help on dosage for chronic pain 2 months 2 weeks ago #28511

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Britmae wrote: Hi everyone! Really hoping someone could let me know how to decide dosage. My father suffers from a few different things. Main being chronic Psoriatic arthritis. He can't take a lot of pharmaseutical anti inflmmatory medications due to COPD, so has been on Prednisone for 5 or 6 years. Due to its horrible side effects he would like to get off it if he can. His joint pain moves from all of his joints, and due to pain and lack of doing anything he also battles depression and anxiety. I ordered some Kratom for him and he tried it today for a knee flare, I'm just not sure how to re dose when he takes it. He took 3 grams, then 30 mins later took 2 grams, and did that every half hour until he got to 10. He felt bo effects. So we arent sure where to go from here. Would he then wait 5 hours and try the 10 at once? Its late now but hes going to try again in the morning. As of now, he believes i ordered gim ground up lawn clippings. Lol any tips would be helpful on how to do this. The higher dose as hes been on and off different pain killers for years. He is also a medicinal marijuana user.
Please help if you can? (We're in Canada)


I would say stay calm and keep his doses really moderate for the time being. 10 grams seems like a lot for the first day. If that didn't work, there could be extenuating circumstances, such as an opiate tolerance. There's a really amazing lady (she's also a nurse) named Bomally who will show up soon to answer your questions, just keep things moderate until then. Nothing changes in a day. Love and hugs.
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Need help on dosage for chronic pain 2 months 2 weeks ago #28512

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Thank you so much. That's what I thought as well. He's going to try again in the morning with the other Red strain I ordered him, and we will see. I just see different ways of "how to" so unclear what to do after a few tries. Not sure if to wait or keep going up every half an gour. Id love it to work for him.
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Need help on dosage for chronic pain 2 months 2 weeks ago #28513

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What reds have you ordered and from where?

Welcome to the forum, Britmae!

Our forum nurse will be with you shortly.

I suspect med interaction of some sort.

NO WAY does a new person with no opiate history recently, NEED 10 grams. So I’m curious as to what you got.

As Tees says, nothing happens quickly. It takes determination and a stubborn will to succeed to really benefit.

Your husband sounds like a good candidate. You will find the right dose of lawn clippings soon :)
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Laurie

Need help on dosage for chronic pain 2 months 2 weeks ago #28515

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Well I showed up just as predicted!

Britmae...I am also in Canada so wondering what vendor you are using? Sometimes poor results have to do with the quality of the product so let's start there.

Pain control is one aspect for your father BUT inflammation would be the most important thing to address. I suspect he is on anti-inflammtory medication (besides the prednisone) but there are many other things you can do to reduce inflammation....BUT he has to be willing to change his diet.

There are also some good anti-inflmmatory herbs you can try.

I mention these things because Kratom can help BUT it will not cure Psoriatic arthritis. Those of us with arthritis who use it for pain management do so in order to keep moving. Ask anyone with arthritis and they will tell you movement hurts!

So back to the dosage.

NO WAY does a new person with no opiate history recently, NEED 10 grams.


I concur so we need to know if he has an opiate history.

The good news is your Dad did not get sick from that large dose...bad news is he is still in pain hmmmmm?

It can take up to 45 minutes for the alkaloids in Kratom to get into your system and start working so you have to wait at least an hour after taking it to assess for efficacy. Also, best to take it on an empty stomach, otherwise the absorption can be slowed down by food in the stomach.

Also it would be good to know WHEN your Dad has the most pain...in the morning, afternoon, at rest or when moving? AND what is he doing for pain management now?

You might want to hold off for now on playing around with doses until we get some of these questions answered and then we can make more informed choices that will help you get better results, however, some experimenting is required and it does take some time and energy to get it right.

Hopefully we can help you both so that your Dad is not sufferring so much.

BTW...I hope you know that you should NOT stop the prednisone suddenly. It has to be tapered down.

And also BTW...my 97 ear old mother uses Kratom too! She thinks everyone in the assisted living facility should be taking it! She says if they did then they would not be so grumpy! HA!
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BEV

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Need help on dosage for chronic pain 2 months 2 weeks ago #28568

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Thank you so much. Sorry its taken a bit to get back to you we had company here so we held off trying again until I was able to write back. He tried a Red Kapuaus Hulu and we ordered from Kratomsource.ca
His pain comes at random, in flare ups. So sometimes he feels good, then hits him like a tonne of bricks and can barely walk, then sometimes it goes away or moves to a new joint.
He doesn't use opiates on the regular, extra syrength tylenol, occassionally T3s, and for a recent really bad flare he got torridol. I believe there is one more he uses for bad flares but have forgotten the name. Other than that, he uses 10mg of prednisone daily. If he didnt, his flares and pain would be much worse.
Just not sure how to start the kratom aspect. Oh, he also has severe anxiety and depression and is on medication for those as well.
Should i order from a better supplier? Or did we do something wrong?
Thank you so much for taking the time to help us figure this out. Greatly appreciated.
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Need help on dosage for chronic pain 2 months 2 weeks ago #28569

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I have ordered from the same vendor BUT there are some others that I think have better product.

Try CanadaKratomExpress

OR Canuck Kratom

Psoriatic arthritis is of course an "autoimmune" type of disease so we know that inflammation is the main culprit. Because your father is well controlled on prednisone it is clear his problem is coming from inflammation that is just out of control.

You would do well to investigate OTHER ways of managing inflammation rather than prednisone which is rather drastic.

This is going to get overwhelming so be prepared and BTW...it is pretty hard to get this wrong...EVERYTHING we do is just a trial. We are all doing the best we can.

Inflammation can be controlled by diet and certain herbs. There are lots of websites out there that offer advice on an anti-inflammatory diet. My personal experience was the best with the Blood Type Diet . As soon as I started eating according to my blood type all wheezing went away...all sneezing stopped and mucus production went to almost zero.

I am not sure how compliant your father will be with diet change BUT that is the best place to start.
Eating according to your blood type simply means that your food is working WITH your body chemistry and not against it.

HERBS and supplements


I had the best results with Boswellia (Indian Frankinsense), BUT Turmeric (Curcumin) and Serrapeptase can also work for some people.

Anyone with arthritis should also be taking a Glucosamine product. I like the ones with a product called MSM (also an anti-inflammatory agent) in it as it works the best for me.

Now on to Kratom:

IF (as I suspect) the root cause of pain is the inflammation, then JUST using Kratom will be a short term fix at best. Kratom cannot cure pain...BUT it can help to control it. Having pain under control helps people to lead a more active life AND often gives people more motivation to learn more about their health as well.

Since you already have some green Kratom I would suggest you purchase a sample pack of some Reds

Red Borneo
Red Bentuangie
Red Bali
Red Vein Thai
Red Maeng Da

Most vendors will allow you to purchase a sample pack of at least 4 kinds so start there. CanadaKratomExpress has the fastest delivery....they also test all their product.

Kratom would be WAY superior for pain control than taking the Toradol BUT will not work as well if the inflammation is not controlled. Toradal should only be used for a short term.

BTW T3's ARE opiates...they contain codeine. If they work for him he should get relief with Kratom .

I am not sure how much control you have over your father's diet or how accepting he will be for the changes BUT it looks like inflammation is the root cause of pain...it is worth a try to investigate the diet changes and other ways of cothrolling inflammation.

Kratom has been shown to have some anti-inflammatory effects as well but that is not it's main action.

If you don't mind keeping us posted here on this thread, about your decisions and progress then we can all learn from your experience.

BTW...you mentioned he is taking medication for anxiety. Is he on any benzodiazepines ?
They can be quite difficult to quit.
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BEV

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Last edit: by bomalley.

Need help on dosage for chronic pain 2 months 2 weeks ago #28573

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I had the best results with Boswellia (Indian Frankinsense), BUT Turmeric (Curcumin) and Serrapeptase can also work for some people.


Research these and look for quality supplements. Be patient when trying supplements. Often it takes 3 weeks of taking daily to noticed results. Turmeric is very helpful but quality is important and its not easily absorbed, taking with fats and black peeper is ideal. My daughter is taking turmeric supplements for lupus flares. She finally noticed less stiffness after 4 weeks continued use and taking it with food.
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Need help on dosage for chronic pain 2 months 2 weeks ago #28578

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For sure natural treatements require time...Patience is key!

And sometimes you have to play around with dose too! For example in order to get results I ALWAYS need larger doses of herbs than what the bottle says . I have been able to get good results with the Boswellia 500 which is a slightly larger dose than some formulas with have only 250mg.

Even with Kratom it takes some time and trials to figure out what is best FOR YOU!

I use Well.ca for a lot of my supplements. A good health food store should carry all this as well.

Sisu has a good arthritis formula with glucosamine and chondroitin .

The good news is that all these supplements are WAY safer than medications like Prednisone or Toradol.
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BEV

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Last edit: by bomalley.

Need help on dosage for chronic pain 2 months 2 weeks ago #28635

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wow you always give just the best advice bomalley! i have a high tolerance to opiates, so over the past few months i have gotten up to 30 grams a day, 5 doses of 6grams each, and that seems to help me very well, of course when i first started i took about 5grams the first couple of days, but i read the posts and got good advice on how to find my sweet spot.....i have a severely damaged back, spinal stenosis, herniated discs, blow out discs, scoliosis, and ruptured discs, they want to do a long spinal fusion on my lower back, probably 5 discs, but since i have been taking the kratom, i am much better, well god bless you dear
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