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22 Jun 2020
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I have " the suicide disorder" and need some relief PLEASE! 3 years 2 months ago #20817

  • guit30
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Hi bomalley,
My specific health care team is pretty bad and it was just taken over by another hospital. I had a pain care specialist when I was still working. He was really helpful and provided a lot of emotional support. However, I think that he ramped up my meds too quickly. At that time I just had cervical stenosis, but it was significant and painful.I was originally just having bad pain in my hands and wrists. I went to see a hand surgeon. He did 2 short tests on my hands and diagnosed carpal tunnel syndrome and suggested bi-lateral carpal tunnel release. He was the head of the hand surgery dept, so what was I to say. I had an out-pt procedure for this carpal tunnel procedure done, he was having a hard time getting me to go under, so He said, do you drink? I said no, it was probably my psych meds. Anyway, he did the surgery on my hands. My hands got worse, I almost lost my job after this. I went to a hand specialty clinic after this, they did a very thorough exam. They found out that I had a pinched nerve in my neck, and I had an emg to confirm this. So, I started having PT for this and my PCP was giving me Tylenol #3, to help the surgical pain. I was off pain meds, when I got back to work,just in time.
So I kept struggling with neck pain, so I saw a neck surgeon, who said that he could not help me. Right now, I am going to a clinic for my health needs and don't have a regular doc. I have had 2 very good residents over the last 4 years , who got a lot of tests done over the last couple of years to document all of my problems. I have lost 60 pounds over the last year, I think that it is due to the scoliosis I have which developed rapidly last year. I have a 56 degree lumbar curve. Well, gotta run, thanks for your help.
guit30
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I have " the suicide disorder" and need some relief PLEASE! 3 years 2 months ago #20815

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I took 10 mg 4 times a day at the height of my oxycodone use. Could have used more but doc would not prescribe more...that was the upper limit! Any higher doses would invite more scrutiny from the College oh Physicians and Surgeons. As my tolerance developed, I was angry...it turns out, he was right to limit it.

It REALLY helped me to be more active and specifically work on my alignment issues.

There are many here on this forum who have been taking oxycodone for a long time...I hope they can chime in and provide some insight as to whether or not this might work for you. We need some input from someone who has combined them...Laurie...are you out there?

I really believe you are in terrible pain. Adding Kratom may help but the only way to find out is to try. IF these new meds are weaker and you are going through withdrawal (we have all been there!)...some Kratom may help ease those symptoms while your body resets to a lower dose...then the weaker oxycodone pills should work better.

If you have been taking opiates since 2000 you must have developed some tolerance, no way around it.

Have you tried coming off the opiates? Do you have any pain specialists on your team?

The issue about docs taking patients off pain meds MIGHT get me to drag out my soapbox...I feel VERY strongly that people need proper pain relief, especially at the end of life.

For chronic pain however, the evidence supporting long term use of opiates is non-existent. As a chronic pain sufferer myself I did NOT want to believe this, but it is true and I feel SO much better being off it.

Here's to hoping you can find some help here among others who can bond with you as to your lived experience.

BTW I am in Canada and we have a universal health care system BUT we also have an opioid crisis which has prompted the same kind of vigilance regarding opioid prescriptions that is happening in the US. However, we also have specialized pain clinics as part of the health care system in many areas that patients can access through referral from their GP...no cost to patients of course. Unfortunately they do not exist in every region of the country so lots of suffering here too.
BEV

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I have " the suicide disorder" and need some relief PLEASE! 3 years 2 months ago #20811

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bomalley,
Thanks a lot, looks like this is not going to work for me, I do not think that I could totally do without oxycodone at this point in life. I do not think this is a tolerance issue. There is a war against opioids in the US, I have been on disability for 5 years for all of my pain issues and lymphedema and bipolar disorder. I went from having decent pain management to getting a medication that does virtually nothing in one day. That is not a tolerance issue, it is a weaker pain med problem. I understand tolerance. I have been taking oxycodone or Oxycontin since 2000. I am on 6 30mg oxycodone pills a day. I can not afford Oxycontin on medicare. My legs burn from sciatica and lymphedema. I get stabbing pains in my lower back and buttocks, and that is when I am on regular meds that work. So, I guess this isn't for me. I feel like I am going thru withdrawal symptoms with these weak pills. It is sad what they are doing in the US. Doctors are taking cancer patients off of their pain meds.
Thanks a lot for your info, how much oxycodone were you taking when you were at your worst?
Thanks,
Jim
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I have " the suicide disorder" and need some relief PLEASE! 3 years 2 months ago #20796

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guit30 wrote: Hi bomalley,
You look like a person I could trust for answers. I have bad chronic pain,this month, when I picked up my prescription, 30 mg of oxycodone, I found out it just does not work. Called manufacturer, mallincrodt, they insisted it was same as always. I have been using this med for cervical stenosis,scoliosis, sciatica and spinal stenosis. Today, this morning was most painful that I have ever been, I have been thinking about trying kratom for awhile. Do you think it would help? What vendor would you recommend ? I have heard red colored kratom is best for pain. You can pm me if you wish or answer here. I would like a place that sells capsules.
Thanks,
guit30

Usual disclaimer I am not a physician, a pharmacist, or a chemist and offer only my best educated best guess, NOT a professional opinion...

For the benefit of others lurking about I will respond here instead of pm.

IF you are not getting the same results from your usual opiate prescription, and IF the brand name remained the same, then the only possible explanation is that you are developing tolerance. This is one of the biggest challenges of opiate use...you need larger and larger doses over time. Honestly it is best not to go down that road.

YES Kratom can help you somewhat BUT the usual guidance offered here is either Kratom or opiates not both. In other words you can substitute a dose of Kratom for an opiate dose BUT do not take them together. If Kratom and an opiate are taken at the same time, they will compete for the same cell receptors ...the net result can be nil. Best not to mess up your opiate receptors any more.

Some people try 2-3 days with opiates then 2-3 days on Kratom when they start, others switch over completely right away.

My own experience is that Kratom is GREAT for chronic pain, but not so good for acute pain. It will help, but is not completely effective for me. Others here on the forum might disagree as their experience might be different. For my everyday aches and pains (including my back) Kratom is a life saver for me... BUT if my back goes "out" (whatever that means) and I need a chiropractic adjustment, it does not help very much and off to the chiropractor I go!

Laurie has give you some good advice regarding strains. Reds are usually recommended as a starting point for those seeking pain relief. The only way to know is to try! I started with Red Bali and Red Vein Thai but found the BEST pain relief with Red Borneo. Now I take a number of different reds and yellows and sometimes blend in a bit of a white for a little energy lift as reds can be quite sedating in large doses (4-5 gms for me). I have not tried greens yet.

Starting dose is usually recommended at 2Gms. A scale is helpful as not all teaspoons are the same in respect to weight.

Finally I need to mention that Kratom is only a piece of the treatment puzzle for chronic pain. There are many other strategies for self care that must be in your tool kit. Relying on substances will not result in improvement. The purpose of the opiate is to provide pain relief so that you can engage in other therapies to improve strength and flexibility. It is NOT meant to be a lifelong treatment because ...well it just does not work.

Other strategies for me meant diet changes to reduce inflammation, various physical therapies such as massage, and physio, and then exercise (I chose yoga because I could not stand for more than 15 - 20 minutes) to strengthen my muscles so that they could hold my bones in proper alignment. I STILL have osteoarthritis and imaging of my spine STILL shows bone spurs, scoliosis, and degenerative disc disease, but with my bones in proper alignment and improvement in strength and flexibility, the inflammation and nerve irritation has improved so much my pain is no longer oxycodone worthy! It took about 3 years of my life to achieve that.

If you are in Canada I can recommend some vendors, otherwise you will have to rely on the recommendations of others in the FIND A VENDOR/RATE A VENDOR section of the forum here.

BTW...I started on this chronic pain journey (2013) unable to stand for more than 20 minutes without needing oxycodone for pain relief. Now I do yoga 5 times per week and walk 4 kilometers 4-5 times per week with walking poles, and I gave up oxycodone about 5 months ago YEAH! My other self care strategies include a balance of rest and activity, superb clean nutrition, some anti-inflammatory herbs (Boswellia Serrata), knowing when to say NO, and of course Kratom.

and to think that in 2014 I was considering buying a scooter! I am so glad I did NOT.
BEV

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I have " the suicide disorder" and need some relief PLEASE! 3 years 2 months ago #20794

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WELCOME TO THE BEST KRATOM FORUM EVAH, Curvyone AND guit30!

You're already getting good stuff here. I'd like to add that MY metabolism does not recognize kratom at ALL when opiates have been in my system. I have to wait between 3-8 DAYS before I can feel it relieving my pain and depression. Opiate tolerance substantially moots the effects in a lot of other people (BUT NOT ALL!)

And, there is no easy way to find the right strain. It's trial and error. Totally different than pills. And even pills are not PRECISELY the same from one to the next.

There are basic rules of thumb, RED for PAIN, GREEN for MOOD LIFT (not euphoria), and WHITE is for ENERGY. But EVEN those rules vary from one person to another. Favorite vendors also change as the plant harvesting and batches change.

You really have to WANT IT BADLY enough to remove the other substances from distracting your opiate receptors. And you can't know you WANT IT BADLY without fully dedicating time and money to finding what works for you. And - it gets better - even ONCE YOU FIND what works, tolerance becomes an issue and change is required.

There is a list of Approved Vendors that are tried and true on this website, and we always have forum participants doing reviews of new AND known vendors on the FIND A VENDOR/RATE A VENDOR section.

Try and utilize the "search" bar with keywords you are interested in. You'll find a LOT of our conversations to help you get specific personal opinions from specific members here. But, we are all DIFFERENT, too, so keep that in mind. My journey STILL has me buying tiny samples from different vendors and getting surprising results. It's NEVER dull, here, lol

The dosage is a mixed bag for you, Curvylittleone. Although higher amounts like FREEMEPKZ suggests would obviously be needed to even TOUCH your tolerance, there is a ceiling effect and going over that ceiling will get you head-down in front of the toilet. That can really ruin your chances of being EVER able to tolerate getting it down again, and thus limiting your possibilities for the future if your journey makes it downright NECESSARY to use kratom (such as the doctors cracking down on opiate prescriptions for ALL PATIENTS - use caution to avoid being UNABLE to stand to try kratom again - down the road).

I'll STFU and let the others guide you on your journeys.
Laurie
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I have " the suicide disorder" and need some relief PLEASE! 3 years 2 months ago #20793

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Hi bomalley,
You look like a person I could trust for answers. I have bad chronic pain,this month, when I picked up my prescription, 30 mg of oxycodone, I found out it just does not work. Called manufacturer, mallincrodt, they insisted it was same as always. I have been using this med for cervical stenosis,scoliosis, sciatica and spinal stenosis. Today, this morning was most painful that I have ever been, I have been thinking about trying kratom for awhile. Do you think it would help? What vendor would you recommend ? I have heard red colored kratom is best for pain. You can pm me if you wish or answer here. I would like a place that sells capsules.
Thanks,
guit30
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I have " the suicide disorder" and need some relief PLEASE! 3 years 3 months ago #19680

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I second what Nessa said. The white veins are for a get up and go mood. You may want to try a Red Bali.



I really hope Kratom can help you, but if you can take that much Dilaudid I'm skeptical. It sounds like your doing the toss and wash method, which is what I do. Orange juice neutralizes the taste pretty well, but you'll get use to the taste eventually. Remember to drink plenty of water if you're going to eat that much plant matter. Also, grapefruit juice is believed by many to enhance the effects of kratom.

Look into the extracts if your pain is that kind of level. And of course, consult your doctor.

Good luck to you!

ETA: I also agree with madmax, everyone is different when it comes to Kratom. It was very expensive for me when I started. Every time I saw a headshop I would stop to see what strains they had. So I was walking around with several different versions at a time. I finally found an online vendor, and although people recommend switching up vendors--to avoid a tolerance--I've still yet to find a strain as powerful as his. PM if you're looking for any suggestions.
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Last edit: by Kratos.

I have " the suicide disorder" and need some relief PLEASE! 3 years 6 months ago #16846

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Hey Curvylittleone & Welcome to the Forum. I'm sorry to hear about all your troubles. You have had an Extremely Tough Time. :pinch: Since you have a very high Tolerance to any Opioids then you wouldn't fell much from any Plain Leaf Kratom. You would have to buy some Extracts or Enhanced Kratom like Ultra Enhanced Indo. Then you would have to Slowly Taper off of that then get into some Plain Leaf Strains. Any Extracts or Enhanced Kratom is going to be Uber Expensive but it is very potent but it's not made to be taken very long like a week at the most.

If you are looking into Regular Plain Leaf Kratom then I would look at Strains like Red Bali, White Indo, Any Vietnam, Any Maeng Da, White Thai, White Borneo & Green Malay. All these Strains tend to have Strong Mood Boosting Properties. They tend to cause more Euphoria than other Strains in my Opinion but Remember everybody will React Differently to every Strain.
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I have " the suicide disorder" and need some relief PLEASE! 3 years 6 months ago #16834

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I am using Kratom for chronic pain as well (back). Red Bali is the best for me. Others here have suggested experimenting and that really is what must be done. I have tried Maeng Da and even 1/4 tsp makes me quite ill and shaky. BUT Red Bali gives me pain relief at 4 gm, however, my opioid tolerance was not as great as yours ...I was taking 40 mg of oxycodone per day in 4 doses. I had tapered that down to 10 mg/day and when I started taking Kratom I stopped the Oxy completely. BUT it sounds like I have also had much more success with resolution of chronic pain issues and I really did not need the higher doses of oxycodone anymore.

I also found that taking a single dose of Kratom does not have as good as an effect as taking doses regularly throughout the day, especially for chronic pain.

Is there any reason that you cannot start counselling for the PTSD now? I am surprised that that has not been required part of your treatment plan because resolving emotional traumas will certainly help with the chronic pain experience. This approach is usually one of the first recommendations from pain management professionals.

Unlike FREEMEPLZ, I would caution against starting with the higher doses of Kratom. I took 5 gm (about 1/2 tbsp) of the Red Maeng Da...it wasn't pretty. It might be perfectly fine for you to have a higher dose but it wasn't for me. This is something that must be managed...there is no secret formula for success.

I do not mean to scare you or anyone else... it is just that you need to start low and go slow!

I am sticking with the Red Bali for pain relief and I am trying to keep the dose at 3 - 4 gm in order to prevent tolerance. YES you can develop a tolerance to Kratom as well, it is not a panacea, and it takes experimenting to find out what is right for you and then to manage it.

Please let us know how you make out.
BEV

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I have " the suicide disorder" and need some relief PLEASE! 3 years 6 months ago #16830

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Oh yeah wanted to suggest empty capsules also. If you are having trouble ingesting it capsule it up. U can get 1000 capsules on amazon for approximately $13
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