07 Feb 2019
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TOPIC: Withdrawl

Withdrawl 1 year 4 months ago #23984

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I am taking way more than that ...4.2 Gms 4 times per day, and many days that is not enough to get me good control of pain.

dayturnsnight: How long hs it been since you had any opiates?

I don't think Kratom works very well for acute pain, BUT it really is the only alternative I have now to treat pain (except for rest and we know that THAT is not healthy either).

the effects they have on the dopamine in the brain etc. can last for a very long time!! It takes time for the brain to reset, however being patient is key, because yes, it does happen


I am just wondering how long it takes for the body's opiate system to down-regulate without Kratom OR opiates.

If I could find a cannabis strain that helped and I used ONLY cannabis for pain for a few months would my opiate system down-regulate do you think? Canabinoids do not bind to opiate receptors.

ANYBODY?.
BEV

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Last edit: by bomalley.

Withdrawl 1 year 4 months ago #23993

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bomalley wrote: I am taking way more than that ...4.2 Gms 4 times per day, and many days that is not enough to get me good control of pain.

<strong>dayturnsnight:</strong> How long hs it been since you had any opiates?

I don't think Kratom works very well for acute pain, BUT it really is the only alternative I have now to treat pain (except for rest and we know that THAT is not healthy either).

the effects they have on the dopamine in the brain etc. can last for a very long time!! It takes time for the brain to reset, however being patient is key, because yes, it does happen


I am just wondering <strong>how long it takes for the body's opiate system to down-regulate without Kratom OR opiates.</strong>

If I could find a cannabis strain that helped and I used <strong>ONLY cannabis for pain</strong> for a few months would my opiate system down-regulate do you think? Canabinoids do not bind to opiate receptors.

ANYBODY?.

Well I took 1 norco 7.5 in the last month, before that it was around 9 months or so. Idk I dont keep track NA style. I try not to let the thought consume me. I feel by puting a date on it you are letting it control you. Works for me, but not everyone. For pain cannabis wise if you are smoking it blue dream, and sour diesel work best for me. Edibles work even better but thats a slippery slope. I need to figure out some kratom edible recipes. hmmm
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Withdrawl 1 year 4 months ago #23995

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I am beginning to think it takes many many months,,maybe years for down-regulation to occur so that opiates work at lower doses.

30-90 days is not going to cut it.

Overall I took oxy for 3 years. Tolerance developed at first when I broke my ankle and had to double my 5mg dose to get pain relief.

"Don't worry" doc said "The dosage is small". I didn't care I just wanted relief.

2 years later I was needing 20 mg for pain relief and many times that was not enough....At that point, much to my docs delight we agreed to stop it. (He was still writing the prescription for 10mg tabs four times per day...I had not shared that I was taking 20 mg twice per day - *sigh*)

I did manage to reduce my dose from 40mg per day to 20 mg per day before stopping completely, but went straight to Kratom so my body never had a chance to be with empty opiate receptors.

I am just concerned about having such a tolerance to opiates that if I ever need them for acute pain they will not work. Plus...I have definitely developed a tolerance to Kratom, although it still works for me, it is not working as well and will it work at this dose forever?

But I cannot find any data on HOW LONG it takes for this down regulation to occur.

Thanks for the advice on Cannabis dayturnsnight ...I am going back to the compassion center this month to re-apply for my MM card. It means a visit to the doc AGAIN just to get papers signed *another big sigh*

This will be my 3rd go round...I hope it works this time. Will probably investigate vaporizing as delivery method this time. Cannabis is MUCH MUCH more expensive than Kratom, and then there is the issue of impairment that does not happen with Kratom.

Wouldn't it be nice to get off this chronic pain merry-go-round?
BEV

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Withdrawl 1 year 4 months ago #23999

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I think you will be ok. Remember surgerical pain is usually over medicated, especially if you have a history of pain med use through a Dr. I mean regulations are getting tighter so who knows, but like I said I was need 100 plus mg of oxycontin 9 months ago and 1 lortab worked for me last month in a way that the oxy hadnt in years. Kratom doesnt bind to the receptors so much as hover around them stimulating them and moving on. It also works more of the less aggressive delta receptors more so than the mu receptors. Ive views MRI and CT scans of both opiates and kratom. Its rather remarkable.

Think of prying a piece of candy out of a 2 year olds hands vs asking an adult for a piece of their snickers. (odd analogy I know but anyone who has a kid who you dont usually allow candy and they found their halloween stash knows what im talking about) This is why we need more studies like this. I regularly stop taking kratom as to not up my dose. I deal with the chronic pain until I see and feel myself become miserable due to it. I could never have just stopped opiates like that. When I took my last pill and knew my RX was days away from being filled my body would panic. Ive ran out of kratom and my fear of no kratom is similar to that of my fear of running out of my favorite food or drinks. Eh Ill get it when I can get to the store. Keep in mind I AM terminal (if i dont get a liver transplant due to my blood disease and even by then may need more organs), on top of 7 herniated discs, a rare blood disease thats also attacked my pancreas and thyroid, RA, and psoriatic arthritis etc. So its not like I dont hurt, but I also know my body isnt going to freak out.
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Withdrawl 1 year 4 months ago #24000

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Also quick note on vaping bud. Look for a dry herb vape, still get the taste of bud but only need about 1/4 the amount. it burns at a temp to release thc, cbd, terpenes etc but little to no carcinagens. It is a more intense high that creeps up on you though because you arent wasting thc by overheating it. So treat vaping like you would edibles, and kratom. A little bit at a time. Also look into cbd and siblingual CBD oil, turmeric and valerien root if you have trouble sleeping. Since kratom I have looked into all natural everything. Turmeric with a half TSP of peppercorns will also make your kratom go further.
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Last edit: by dayturnsnight.

Withdrawl 1 year 4 months ago #24011

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Turmeric doesn't "test well" for me so I have never taken it (I see a holistic practitioner who tests everything)

CBD was my second go round. Several sucks of the oil off the end of the toothpick put me into a terrible allergic reaction. I am sure it was tainted with something. I have just learned (from roadie I think) that growers use metabisulphite and do not have to declare it as it is not considered a pesticide. I am VERY allergic to sulphites.


My first go round with edibles had me suicidal inside of two months.

Pretty sure my lungs would not like smoke of any kind.

I am going to a different compassion club this time. (there are PLENTY in this area...one on every street corner it seems)

Maybe third time lucky? I am pretty nervous about trying it again, ( and will carry LOTS of antihistamine) BUT hope for eventual resolution of this back pain is fading so I have to do something.

I usually do not have ANY trouble sleeping when I am taking red Kratom strains....pain does not usually keep me awake since I only hurt when I move. AND the more I move the more I hurt.

Kratom has been such a blessing and really changed my life for the better. BUT I really think I need to take a vacation from it for a while.
BEV

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Last edit: by bomalley.

Withdrawl 1 year 4 months ago #24082

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I have always liked Turmeric with Black Pepper as a Potentiator for Kratom. It seems to make Kratom stronger. One of my Favorite Potentiators along with Vitamin C, Cayenne Pepper, Magnesium & a few others.
If anybody has any Questions about Kratom please private message me or make a Post & I will be glad to answer as soon as I can usually within 24 hours if not sooner. I'm usually on really late at night Between Midnight & 5am.
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Last edit: by madmaxnightrider. Reason: Had to edit some words

Withdrawl 1 year 4 months ago #24382

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Someone on this forum recommended drinking water to solve RLS and I actually tried it. That was a mistake. It made it worse as having to go to the bathroom just exasperated the issue. I listened because it seemed to come from a knowledgeable source but I'm out a very uncomfortable night of no sleep and great discomfort.
I'm tired of reading posts about the withdrawal of Kratom being insignificant and unlike opiates. That's a fallacy for someone recovering from an opiate addiction. I don't care what research you think you have read I've been through it for years and people just want to say it's not so to not make Kratom look bad. Well it is bad and join any forum not pro Kratom and you'll see dozens in agreement. I don't take it because I love it I take it because I have an addiction to it and everyone I know personally uses it for the same reason. It's not medicine.. it's simply the lesser of another evil.
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Withdrawl 1 year 4 months ago #24390

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As someone who can stop kratom for weeks on end of my pain subsides I have to disagree. I could never stop lortab or oxycontin longer than between doses. So Ill have respectfully disagree. Kratom comes with its issues (so does water, drowning, toxicity, chemicals etc) to say kratom isnt medicine though is saying anything that has uncomcortable side effects is calling every medicines... not medicine!

I left town sans kratom over the weekend. If I had done that even on lortab I would have ventured home. Kratom, I said oh well my back pain may hurt a bit more. After a few nights on a bed other than my own I hurt a bit more but I wasnt losing sleep, puking, diarrhea, anxiety, cold chills to sweating. I was just dealing with issues I have. Now RLS exists in people who dont take opiates etc and PAWS symptoms including RLS can take awhile to get over, or maybe you just have it. Maybe a pinched nerve is causing your issues, lack of exercise, underlying condition? Ive read pro and negative kratom sites alike. I know the science behind it. Before 1 person claims kratoms the cause maybe they should look into other issues. Like the woman who said "kratom made my son kill himself"! You sure it wasnt that he was so badly addicted to other substances that even kratom didnt help withdrawal? Its always important to share your symptoms with a med Dr/therapist.
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Withdrawl 1 year 3 months ago #24999

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Samson250 wrote: Someone on this forum recommended drinking water to solve RLS and I actually tried it. That was a mistake. It made it worse as having to go to the bathroom just exasperated the issue. I listened because it seemed to come from a knowledgeable source but I'm out a very uncomfortable night of no sleep and great discomfort.
I'm tired of reading posts about the withdrawal of Kratom being insignificant and unlike opiates. That's a fallacy for someone recovering from an opiate addiction. I don't care what research you think you have read I've been through it for years and people just want to say it's not so to not make Kratom look bad. Well it is bad and join any forum not pro Kratom and you'll see dozens in agreement. I don't take it because I love it I take it because I have an addiction to it and everyone I know personally uses it for the same reason. It's not medicine.. it's simply the lesser of another evil.


I’ve WD’d heroin many years ago, oxycodone, and just about every opiate. In comparison Kratom WDs are not nearly as bad provided your use isn’t sky high. They’re not insignificant but for me there is really no comparison.

The problem is not with the plant. If it was it wouldn’t be helping so many people. Some of us are not so fortunate and are severely disabled. For many people Kratom provides a small measure of what many people take for granted. Some of us can’t even make it outside some days. No, the problem is with people and their relationship with the plant.

Kratom is only the lesser of two evils if you’re abusing it. For those who are using it, it is a good thing and I am personally thankful for it.
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