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My Conundrum ~ tolerance, detoxing, and strain recommendations 5 months 3 weeks ago #50409

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I really appreciated everyone's input on this, thank you! I came back to update. I lowered my dosage significantly, and tried pairing my kratom with tumeric and other things that are touted for enhancing effects. After doing this for a couple of weeks, I could finally feel a difference once I took a larger dose. Still not the same as when I first began taking kratom, but much better than having zero effect. I am glad that tapering for a couple of weeks helped (as well as rotating strains).
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My Conundrum ~ tolerance, detoxing, and strain recommendations 7 months 2 weeks ago #49101

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Anytime Ratbone. If you ever have anymore Questions just PM me anytime & I will answer as soon as I see it.

The main thing I would look at is not to take one strain too long. Rotating your Strains is very important as to not get Strain Stagnant Syndrome.

For Instance don't take the same color strain or the same strain more than 2 days in a row. Also try to keep your Dosages as low as Possible. With Kratom Less Is More which is hard for most people to really Comprehend but it is really true. I recommend getting a Milligram Scale & weighing each dose so as to not Waste any Kratom. For Instance you might be wasting several grams a day because you are over shooting your Sweet Spot Dosage.

The Sweet Spot Dosage is where each strain works at it's best while keeping the Dosage minimal. Just a few pointers. Let me know how you do. Good Luck Ratbone.
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My Conundrum ~ tolerance, detoxing, and strain recommendations 7 months 2 weeks ago #49094

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Thanks for your reply! I didn't know about Cayenne. I will check out Green Malay - I have seen it being sold but not tried it!
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My Conundrum ~ tolerance, detoxing, and strain recommendations 7 months 2 weeks ago #49093

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Thank you for your reply! I have never heard of Hirsuta, I will definitely look into it. I liked hearing your rotation and timing. I definitely have to start being more consistent. I will update in a few weeks with my results!
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My Conundrum ~ tolerance, detoxing, and strain recommendations 7 months 2 weeks ago #49081

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Too True KratoCan. Thanks for pointing that out. Yes Just 14 grams.
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My Conundrum ~ tolerance, detoxing, and strain recommendations 7 months 2 weeks ago #49080

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@max,
Choice 2 in this stanza sounds more reasonable than the 100-200 gram taper as written in your first stanza.....(a typo, undoubtedly, as ratbone was only taking a max of 14g)
Hey, it's early!
The rest is valuable information, thanks for your research, brother!

Peace,
Dami
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George S. Patton
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My Conundrum ~ tolerance, detoxing, and strain recommendations 7 months 2 weeks ago #49079

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AGMATINE + KRATOM—WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW
When taken in tandem, these two powerful compounds will likely amplify the others’ effects. This may be advantageous to some, but it could be detrimental to others. Since kratom has been found to potentially disrupt the healthy functioning of the heart and increase blood pressure, it may counteract the positive effects of Agmatine.

The more stimulating kratom strains such as White Borneo and Super Green Malay may negatively affect those with preexisting conditions like high BP or a history of heart disease. Taking kratom in concert with Agmatine may minimize the potential of adverse effects…or it may intensify such effects.

Since there is not enough clinical evidence to corroborate any of these substances’ alleged benefits, it is advisable to take them with caution. Those who have taken the Agmatine/Kratom combination in moderation report a positive experience that was largely free of side effects.

This mixture is said to potentiate the following benefits of the amino acid derivative:

Enhanced energy
Endurance
Improved mood
Increased stamina
HOW SHOULD AGMATINE AND KRATOM BE TAKEN?


Whenever you are stacking with two or more supplements it is imperative that you work out the dosage that’s right for you. This usually entails a fair amount of trial and error before you get acclimated to each substance.

One should always start with the lowest dosage possible before slowly graduating to a larger dose. It is also wise to “cycle” dosages; skipping these compounds for a few days in between each dosage is a viable way to avoid tolerance, addiction or abuse. It is also a method by which you are more likely to eliminate the possibility of negative side effects cropping up.

Obviously, we all want to get the best out of our desired supplements. This is true of Kratom as much as it is any other chemical compound. By minimizing your dosages, graduating slowly and taking a break here and there, you will get the most out of your stack.

This is also a good way to rotate your stash. For instance, you can dose with Agmatine and Green Malay on Monday and Tuesday, take Wednesday and Thursday off then follow up with Agmatine and White Vein Sumatra on Friday and Saturday. In this way, you’ll experience all of the unique properties of each kratom strain.

Once you’ve found your sweet spot in terms of dosage level, you should be sure to stick to it. Exceeding this dosage may result in tolerance or adverse reactions.

AGMATINE KRATOM TAPER: DOES IT ACTUALLY WORK?

While it is not a bright idea to take large dosages of both Kratom and Agmatine together, it isn’t out of the ordinary to find users who take moderate dosages of Agmatine to wind back the clock, so to speak. Many who have suffered from Kratom tolerance found that adding Agmatine to their daily regimen reduced their tolerance.

One user who felt like a slave to Kratom after chronic long-term use found that Agmatine was able to reinvigorate his life. As he put it, “I’d reached the point where I could no longer enjoy everything I’d always loved about Kratom, but at the same time I couldn’t live without it.

“When my friend suggested I take an Agmatine supplement to reduce my tolerance I didn’t have much faith. But it worked and I can’t begin to explain what a greeat feeling it was. I was able to sleep better, I was no longer stressed and my mood improved within days….Anyone who needs to feel like Kratom is new again should take the leap of faith and try this out. It worked for me and I thought nothing would.”

CLOSING THOUGHTS
The substances referenced above are research chemicals and, as such, they should be administered with great caution. Those who are considering an Agmatine + Kratom mix should consult with their physician prior to taking their first dosage.

If you have a preexisting medical condition, it is best to avoid such a combination. Pregnant and lactating mothers should not take Kratom, nor should they stack without seeking medical advice.

With all of that said, it is this writer’s belief that Agmatine and Kratom are largely safe when taken responsibly and with proper supervision. Again, always consider your own personal sensitivities and needs before stacking with kratom potentiators. Be safe, be smart and be well.

Tolerance Break Tools:

Stem & Vein
Stem & Vein is still kratom, but it's actually just the stems and veins of the plant. This means the alkaloids in it are a bit different than the normal regular leaf. Although there is some cross tolerance, the usual receptors kratom reacts on takes a bit of a break. After just taking it for a week straight (effects aren't as good, but still decent), you should notice a difference. The biggest obstacle with S&V is that a quality version is hard to find (some even produce anxiety).

Kava Kava
The Kava plant (a member of the pepper family) is a tropical shrub found mainly in the South Pacific (not far off from where kratom grows- the land of magical plants). The effects are relaxing, mood boosting and just great to unwind with. Although it only lasts around an hour, there's virtually no side effects and it's surprisingly powerful. It's important to note that it doesn't have any direct benefit in regards to lowering tolerance, but rather offers as an alternative as something to enjoy in a similar manner to how you would with kratom.
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My Conundrum ~ tolerance, detoxing, and strain recommendations 7 months 2 weeks ago #49078

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How Quickly Does Kratom Tolerance Build?
According to reports by users, tolerance towards kratom begins to develop after about eight to ten months of regular usage. After three months of daily usage, especially for pain relief and other medicinal benefits, users have reported that they need to take more kratom to receive the same effects. The most commonly referred heightened dosage is usually between 2-4 teaspoons, with each leveled teaspoon containing 2.5 grams of kratom.

Developing tolerance towards kratom differs significantly from individual to individual. Those who take more than the recommended dosage of kratom every day are more likely to develop tolerance than those who don’t, especially if they do not have a previous history of any heavy medicine usage. Users who consume premium strains (which only includes the leaf, not the stem which has very few alkaloids in it) or kratom extracts (which are concentrated forms of the substance) are much more likely to develop tolerance within 4-5 months.

How To Avoid Kratom Tolerance
Aside from reducing kratom dosage slowly (not suddenly, as this can lead to withdrawal symptoms), here are two of the most useful ways of avoiding developing kratom tolerance. It is important to try the taper method first, as it is the most recommended one. If that does not work, then the washout method should be used, which is more drastic. It is extremely vital to try either of these methods because many users use kratom for medical benefits, such as relief from chronic back pain. For these medical users, continuing to experience kratom’s effects is necessary for them to enjoy life.

i) Washout Method
The washout method is a modern technique consisting of two options. It can be used to either stop kratom usage altogether or take breaks from using it.

Choice 1: Stop all at once
Stopping at once is difficult and requires a lot of willpower. However, it is the most effective way. This is because it greatly speeds up the process of diminishing kratom tolerance, and heightens sensitive to kratom strains again. However, its negative effect is that it might lead to withdrawal symptoms, which might cause users to relapse.

Choice 2: Taper
This method is where a break is taken in kratom usage, as this allows withdrawals to lessen to almost nothing. However, its adverse effect is that it requires quite a long time before one can get off of kratom. If users use kratom for medicinal usages, such as chronic pains or migraines, then they should reduce dosages slowly and continue taking small dosages to continue to experience relief and increase sensitivity. Users report that the taper method should be done at one’s own pace, however reducing one gram a day for approximately two weeks is quite useful. If this seems difficult, try reducing it by 0.5 grams or 0.25 grams a day, and see how it affects your body before continuing.

ii) Rotating Strains Method
Interestingly, it has been reported that switching between strains of kratom is one of the most effect ways of avoiding kratom tolerance. For instance, both Red Vein Indo Kratom and Red Bali kratom provide relief from chronic pains and stress relief. A user can alternate between the usages of both these strains to avoid developing kratom tolerance. It is recommended that users alternate between at least four different strains of kratom in a week. This kratom strain rotation will make them more sensitive towards the unique effects of different kratom strains. It also lessens the possibility of ‘strain burnout’, where a user can become almost immune or numb to the effects of a particular Kratom strain.

Another useful way of rotating strains is altering between vein and stem kratom, as both contain different alkaloids from the plain kratom leaf alone.
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My Conundrum ~ tolerance, detoxing, and strain recommendations 7 months 2 weeks ago #49077

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Like any psychoactive substance, your body will eventually get used to Kratom. There is no danger in it. It’s just how the body naturally reacts to it. However, Kratom tolerance becomes dangerous when you keep increasing each dose to continue experiencing its effects. If you’re not careful, your high doses could eventually lead to Kratom dependence.

It is for this reason you have to keep your tolerance to Kratom at the minimum. Doing so will help you maintain low doses while still experiencing its benefits.

Here are some of the ways that you can do to manage Kratom tolerance:

1. Keep a Schedule and Stick to It
Ideally, you should avoid using Kratom for recreation or pleasure if you want to avoid dependence and manage tolerance. This is also why you have to follow a schedule to avoid using it whenever you just feel like taking a dose.

Having a schedule can help you establish whether or not you’re taking just the right amount and at the right frequency. With a schedule, you can easily tell if you’re taking too much.

With a schedule, you can also determine if the effects are declining. To effectively keep track of its effects, the next tip will help.

2. Journal Your Use and Its Effects
Your body reacts uniquely towards different foods, ingredients, and stimuli. Following this thought, it is only right that your reaction to Kratom is different from those who take the same strain and dosage as you do.

It’s for this reason that you must be aware of your body’s reactions while taking kratom. Record these reactions on a notebook or a note-taking app on your smartphone.

Every dose of Kratom you take should be recorded. For each dose that you take, take note of the date, Kratom strain, dosage amount, and your experience of its effects.

This record can help you determine the lowest dosage for you to experience the desired effects. You would use this as your minimum daily dose and as a benchmark to determine if its effects are diminishing.

Of course, you would eventually increase the dose when this happens. But, with this record, you would know the amount that you should go back to eventually after a clean break or tapering your dose.

3. Use Different Kratom Strains
Your body can eventually become accustomed to one type of Kratom strain that its effects are no longer the same. This is called the stagnant strain syndrome. To remedy this, you would have to space your dose for one strain with a dose of another.

Your journal should also help as you can keep track of a strain’s effects. If the benefits of a strain do not justify the high dosage needed for effects to materialize, it could be time to replace it with a new strain for the mean time.

However, keep in mind that strain rotation would not alleviate overall tolerance of Kratom. You would need to incorporate other ways of managing tolerance to properly use the plant.

4. Properly Space Your Doses
Your body would adapt faster when your Kratom doses are spaced closely between each one. It is advisable to have a minimum of six hours between your doses. Having a more frequent intake could increase the chances of developing Kratom dependence.

Keep each dose at the minimum amount that can provide your intended benefits. In this way, you’re not using more than you need and have less of the plant’s chemicals circulating in your system on average.

Aside from managing tolerance, spacing your doses is a good way to see if you’re developing any dependence in using the plant. If you experience any signs of withdrawal between two doses scheduled six to twelve hours apart, you might have already developed it.

5. Use Magnesium to Help Manage Kratom Tolerance
Magnesium enhances the pain-killing effects derived from interactions on your opioid receptors. This can aid in improving the benefits of Kratom for those taking it for chronic and acute pain while decreasing the needed dose.

Studies have shown that this is due to magnesium being a NMDA antagonist. These receptor antagonists have been shown to reduce central hypersensitivity and opioid tolerance.

To boost your magnesium intake, you can increase your consumption of whole grains, legumes, seeds, nuts, and green leafy vegetables. You can also take magnesium supplements in the form of magnesium bisglycinate, which is the most bioavailable form of the mineral.

6. Periodically Decrease Your Dose
One way that has been proven to reduce tolerance and dependence of opioids (like Kratom) is by reducing its daily intake.

This is done by reducing your daily dose to 50 to 75 percent of your benchmark dose. You can do this by reducing the number of your doses in a day or by reducing the amount in each dose.

If you experience cravings or any symptom, you might have to taper your dose at a more manageable amount. What is important is that you can bring down your intake to half of your benchmark for at least a week.

7. Take Regular Breaks From Kratom
The best way to reduce your body’s familiarity from Kratom is by taking a break from it. You can stop taking your doses for three to seven consecutive days after a few months of taking it.

However, proper care should be done when you plan to take a break from your schedule. Physical withdrawal symptoms can manifest for those who are moderately to severely dependent on Kratom. These symptoms include muscle pain and spasms, sleeping difficulties, watery eyes, runny nose, hot flashes, decreased appetite, fever, and diarrhea.

The withdrawal symptoms would start around six to twelve hours after taking the last dose. The symptoms would gradually increase and peak at two to three days after the last dose. Individuals who are heavily dependent on Kratom can experience withdrawal symptoms for up to a week. If you experience any of the symptoms, you might have an easier time by gradually reducing each dose on your schedule.

Keep this in mind, withdrawal from Kratom is similar to caffeine in intensity and duration. Kratom dependence is similar to caffeine dependence since the plants are related. You can reduce each dose for one to two weeks and reduce it again for the same amount of time until you stop taking it completely.

Difficult but Necessary
Kratom has great benefits for those seeking to substitute or wean off opioid medications. But, these benefits require that you’re careful with how you consume it to avoid developing kratom tolerance.

Some of the ways suggested here can be a hassle at times. But, to manage tolerance and to prevent dependence, these difficulties are just a necessary part of Kratom use.
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My Conundrum ~ tolerance, detoxing, and strain recommendations 7 months 2 weeks ago #49076

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How Kratom Tolerance Works
In order to understand how kratom tolerance works, you need to understand the alkaloids found in the plant and how they affect brain chemistry.

Alkaloids
Kratom (Mitragyna Speciosa) has a large variety of alkaloids that contribute to its medicinal potential; however, there are a two primary kratom alkaloids who do most of the heavy lifting in the case of tolerance: 7-hydroxymitragynine and mitragynine.

7-hydroxymitragynine is responsible for the plant’s painkilling and sedating properties, whereas mitragynine is responsible for some painkilling and stimulating effects.

Alkaloids, Tolerance and Brain Chemistry
Whenever one uses this plant, these two kratom alkaloids begin to work at the brain’s receptor sites, typically within 20 or so minutes.

Once these alkaloids have reached a significant concentration in the brain, causing kratom’s characteristic effects, the brain responds by temporarily down-regulating these receptor sites in order to achieve homeostasis and balance.

If the concentrations of these alkaloids remain in the brain too long from very frequent dosing or heavy dosing, this down-regulation becomes somewhat longer lasting and becomes tolerance, desensitizing one from the plant’s effects.

This applies to all strains, but especially high-alkaloid Indo kratomor Maeng Da strains.

Avoiding Kratom Tolerancedose
For anyone looking to avoid building tolerance, the most obvious and effective solution is to limit its use to rare occasions.

But, for those with chronic pain or similar conditions, this may be out of the question.

Because of this, it is important to know how to moderate one’s dosage or supplement in order to avoid tolerance.

Dosage Intervals
One of the best ways to avoid gaining a tolerance is to space doses so that all alkaloids are out of one’s system before redosing.

Because the alkaloids don’t reach a stable concentration in the brain, the development of tolerance is less likely to occur.

The best way to do this is to take the plant only once per day or less, however, even spacing doses by a small portion can dramatically help.

Even for those who use it regularly, a kratom tolerance break can help dramatically and should be exercised fairly frequently.

Dosage Amount
While not as effective as spacing dosage, reducing the dosage amount can also help reduce tolerance.

Additionally, this will give one room to dose higher when its effects are necessary without causing side effects.

Strain Rotation
Because the alkaloids in different strains of kratom vary to an extent, many people have taken to rotating strains in order to avoid tolerance.

For anyone looking to utilize strain rotation to reduce tolerance, it is a good idea to switch by strain and vein color daily, like switching from a Red Vein Bali to a White Vein Thai.

For instance:

Monday – Red Vein Borneo
Tuesday – White Vein Thai
Wednesday – Green Vein Bali
Thursday – Red Vein Indo
…and so on
However, in order to do this, one will need to have a variety of strains — at least four are suggested.

Strain rotation also seems to make one more sensitive to the unique effects of each kratom strain.

And this reduces the likelihood of strain “burn out”, which causes one to feel almost immune to the effects of a particular strain.

You can also alternate with a stem and vein kratom to make this even more effective, as their alkaloids are quite diverse from plain leaf alone..

Tolerance Slowing Supplements
While there isn’t much research in the area of tolerance, there is an appreciable amount of evidence that certain supplements and medicines can help slow, not prevent, the development of tolerance.

What all these substances have in common is that they are NMDA antagonists, a receptor site responsible for a large portion of development of kratom tolerance.

The best and safest supplement to use when trying to slow the development of tolerance is magnesium, a natural NMDA receptor antagonist.

However, dosing too high on even this relatively harmless supplement can cause some negative effects. Because of this, if you decide to take magnesium, it is a good idea to ensure dosage is within healthy means.

There are other NMDA antagonists, such as dextromethorphan, common in over the counter cough syrup. However, I don’t suggest using it regularly, as high doses of this are suspected to cause lesions after long-term use.

Extracts
Of all of the ways to increase tolerance, extracts such as UEI kratom are the worst. Because of this, if you choose to use kratom extracts, it is important to use them very irregularly in order to avoid the consequences.

Many anecdotal reports I have read commonly state that extracts can cause near immunity to plain leaf kratom if used for too long.
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