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22 Jun 2020
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Otie's: My first order (maybe last) 3 days 2 hours ago #52789

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Oties Botanicals wrote: Hello sorry I am just now seeing this. Sometimes it can be hard with keeping up on the forums. *snip*


Hey Otie's, thanks for all that information (Babel-17 and Somethingsacred too), I really appreciate you taking the time to 'learn us' something and being straight up with us. I apologize for not contacting you about, well mainly the Red Bentuangie (that was the one that seemed bunk-ish to me), but I really just didn't want to be that guy. I am aware that different strains work different for each person, so didn't want to be the nagging, whinny, self entitled customer and I hope folks reading this forum do not take my comments as bashing on Otie's too much. That is not my intent at all.

I am still new enough to Kratom that I am still feeling out what works for me and what doesn't, so just because I did not care for the Red Bent, I surely did not expect any recompense from Otie's (some folks seem to love it). I had read that Red Bent is one of the strongest "strains" out there so was surprised that it did very little if anything for me. Interestingly, it was one of the coolest strains I've seen as far as being fine ground like baby powder and also non-bitter, almost chocolatey tasting. I REALLY wanted to like that one. I did enjoy the two greens I got from Otie's quite a bit.

As mentioned, some vendor's reds may in fact be more green than red, so my thinking I liked reds early on may have been false as well. It may be the green that may have been in the Red Bali that I liked...ugh. Confusing! I was aware of the blends and all that, and to be honest I don't really care if it is super fine ground or not, what color it appears, if it clumps a bit or whatever, or what blend is in it (though I would prefer no blend, just tell me what it really is and I can "blend" my own if needed). All I care is if it works well for me, and if I can get it in relatively good quality, consistently.

I am curious about the wobbles as well (did not have that problem with Otie's stuff by the way). I got the wobbles from a Mitragaia Red/White Maeng Da, Red Dragon blend once, that other wise seemed very weak (meaning the wobbles is all I got from it). So I upped the serving (to ~3-5g) and got wobbles. It was like shivering or spasming pretty intensely when not cold. More shaking than wobbling really, but very unpleasant. I usually use small 2-3g servings (~a teaspoon). If it takes any more than that, I don't want it, because it would totally "plug me up" to use that much if you know what I mean. I hear about people that use 6-10+g servings. Man I could not imagine choking down that much, and if it required that much for effect, I would just call it bunk and move on.
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Last edit: by Dude Guyman.

Otie's: My first order (maybe last) 1 week 3 days ago #52721

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IIRC, when Laurie was taking measures to get her tolerance where she wanted it, she was trying out Hirsuta, and she went by some of the conventional wisdom regarding serving sizes, and that was way off, as the tablespoon amount she took, again IIRC, gave her the wobbles.

If her experience was indicative of what can cause wobbles, then it's off to the bat computer to see what alkaloids are in both Hirsuta and regular Kratom.

Beep, bop, boop, bat computer says Mitraphylline is one possibility. :)

kratomguides.com/mitragyna-hirsuta-powerful-medicinal-solution/

What makes Mitragyna Hirsuta effective?

Mitraphylline being the leading active agent of Mitragyna Hirsuta works for the maximum benefits it offers. This alkaloid has an opiate-like effect on the receptors of the brain.

The same alkaloid is responsible for making Kratom as a powerful herb which shows the similar mode of action of the two plants. For this reason, it is often substituted for Kratom in some recipes and treatments.

Kratom and Mitragyna share same family origin Rubiaceae. The instant results shown by this medicinal plant are the raised energy levels when given in moderate dosage.

Low dosage doesn’t show unexpected results, and higher dosage induces the sedative effect which sometimes becomes discomfort relieving agent for stress.

It is a naturals stress release and the effects last for 3-4 hours. It has been extensively researched by the Department of Pharmacy, Chelsea College of Science and Technology (University of London) as the Mitragyna species of Asia and their functional alkaloid study.
Usage of Hirsuta Mitragyna

The average prescribed dose for an adult person is 20 grams only. Often this quantity is taken in the form of tea with at least 30 minutes of steeping.

It is advised to be sipped slowly so that the maximum absorption is ensured. According to a thread on a discussion panel, for the beginners, the prescribed dosage is 15 mg, and after a regular use one can use up to 25 mg per tea cup.

Heaviest effects are caused with 30mg+ dosage which is not prescribed without a medical condition or need.


And there's one source for the conventional wisdom on the serving size. I don't know, but the Hirsuta that's available from good vendors will have an effect at much lower levels.

Maybe that study had weaker Hirsuta, or Mitraphylline doesn't extract too readily in tea, so relative to tossing Hirsuta, the level of absorption by users is much lower.

kratomcrazy.com/2020/02/07/kratom-vs-hirsuta/

What can I say, they too speak of very large serving sizes for Hirsuta. I'll guess that really good Hirsuta is now available, and that it takes stomach acid to really free up all the Mitraphylline. 20 or more grams of it at a go sounds excessive, and at it's current prices would make for it being hard to sell.

Funny enough, the bat computer also links to this forum, and some very interesting geek speak which I'd forgotten about.

www.ilovekratom.com/kratom-forum/kratom-discussion...tragyna-hirsuta-info

And now that I think about it, I think that a lot of Cat's Claw extract can give one the wobbles. Maybe Mitraphylline is a source of the wobbles.

Edit: The first page of that thread here is a must see. madmaxnightrider, and Laurie, provide a wealth of info, and it seems that maybe I did remember correctly about Laurie's experience with Hirsuta, though she speaks of dizziness and doesn't say "wobbles".

www.ilovekratom.com/kratom-forum/kratom-discussion...a-info.html?start=30
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Last edit: by Babel-17.

Otie's: My first order (maybe last) 1 week 3 days ago #52720

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Absolutely understand, I know what ya mean :)
I just would have ( like in diff but similar matters with vendors ) contacted you to give awareness of a post .

I’m savvy to the “strain” conundrum, and have also heard about mixing this with that to achieve a “yellow” and so on..... Ofcourse I’m not in the thick of the trade like you and some others in your profession.... I always learn from you guys/gals doing the work that we get to benefit from.

I’m also interested in the “wobble” factor ... why is it that some batches lean towards these effects and others don’t ? Fascinating to no end!!! I’m happy to report that I’ve only experienced this a few times since I embarked upon my kratom regimen.

It’s always great to have your presence here , and my main goal is to help the members and hopefully the vendors that are part of this special community. I just felt like I let you down and that’s something I don’t want to do with you or other ILK vendors .

How about the ads from the AKA? Pretty friggin amazing huh ? I’m so stoked to have the truth get out and represent just how spectacular and beneficial this leaf is to so many folks in America and around the world . So proud of the AKA and all the contributors that make kratom accessible, safe and affordable.

Cant express how much gratitude and appreciation I have for everyone involved . I can’t nor would I want to imagine my life without kratom. It’s like where there wasn’t color or optimism, pre kratom , now it’s full on colorful and I wake up knowing I will make it through the day and feel happier and more positive than I did prior to utilizing this fine leaf . Life saving life affirming loveliness . Kratom has given me hope to live life not in constant pain, depression or anxiety. Literally a gift from the earth to help us move through life feeling better !

Thanks for doing what you do bro, and for reading my ramblings lol, look forward to catching up some more ,

Stay awesome Adam B-)

* oh.... and weeds ..? Damn, wtf lol.
That’s why the work you do is so important , we get kratom that is actually kratom.. weed free B)
Life is better with kratom !
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Last edit: by Somethingsacredgoinonhere.

Otie's: My first order (maybe last) 1 week 3 days ago #52718

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No worries brother! What I meant was if he contacted me we could have taken care of him some how that's all lol man I'm still learning things as I go. In the beginning of my Kratom journey it took me awhile to accept the fact that certain strains aren't real. That the Indo suppliers basically have like a recipe book that they follow for blending. I also learn alot from the labs. You see the differences between the vein colors. I'm looking forward to the future. As it becomes more accepted which I think it will be. Thank you AKA. I think the science is going to start opening up for us. I really want to know like......what gives people the wobbles. Is it too much MIT? Or too much of another alkaloid that we don't know much about? Things like that. We were really lucky to land the supplier we have now. He's become a good friend and he teaches me stuff about the proccess all the time. Some suppliers apparently cut the Kratom with weeds! Yes weeds! Crazy stuff
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Otie's: My first order (maybe last) 1 week 3 days ago #52716

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I’m so sorry I didn’t bring this to your attention Adam . I feel bad . I either completely blanked or thought I did contact you . I apologize for not bringing this to your attention :( Thank you for busting butt for all of us , it’s a workload that I don’t personally know but from what I’ve gathered , it’s a non stop marathon to keep the wheel oiled and operations running smoothly .......your new packaging facility sounds amazing .

Thank you for all that you do , and for posting a response to this thread . One size does not fit all, and def for reds , it’s rare when I find one that does what I want it to do. I didn’t know suppliers mixed greens into “reds” ... but I can understand the logic . Pretty cool that you are providing pure red vein leaf .

Hope you and your family have been well , it’s always great when we hear from you and the Otie team.

Take good care Adam (L)
Life is better with kratom !
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Otie's: My first order (maybe last) 1 week 3 days ago #52712

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Hello sorry I am just now seeing this. Sometimes it can be hard with keeping up on the forums.

Let me start off by saying I would like to apologize for your experience. If you have contacted us instead we could have taken care of you. Unfortunately no kilo is ever the same. The green Malay you have is in fact Green Malay. A kilo can be a dark green, the next one light. Not stem and vein. Stem and vein is a bone color so fluffy your can barely close the bag. The way colors are in terms of MIT go green, than, white, than red. Red being the lowest. The thing is with this industry when you order a red from a company it's either fermented or mixed with green. That's how the suppliers do it because red vein is more difficult to find. Our reds are straight red veins. Also, most of our labs show potency. Usually always. Reds obviously being the lowest and our greens being the highest. This time around was different though. Two of our whites were 1.9%. Companies usually aren't supposed to sell anything over 2%. Our greens are usually always up there as well so we're right on the edge. As far as the hair. We have a packaging facility with certain controls in place. We have a pressurized clean room with a gowning area, an extraction arm to suck out all particles, and before entering certain things have to be done. Jacket, shoe covers, lint roll, wash hands and arms etc etc. Sometimes in rate situations things do happen. We do our best to avoid them but they do happen. As far as clumps this is full nano. Not a nano/micro mix that people try to pass off as full nano. It is the consistency of baby powder. We store our Kratom in a cool, non humid clean type environment. I would assume if you stored kilos of baby powder in vacuum tight kilos in a cool area the same thing would happen. I feel like it would happen even more with nano Kratom because of the plant fibers and natural moisture. There definitely is nothing wrong with it causing that because the lab results would most likely signify. Again I'm sorry you had this experience. Everyone is different. We have people that love the reds and bents and order 6 kilos and upwards at a time. Also the price reflects the company. If we didn't have anyone helping us out, didn't have a packaging facility, testing, etc etc than yea we could sell 70 dollar kilos. I wish you would have contacted us first. I'm glad I got to speak to you and I hope your family is ok during these trying times.
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Last edit: by Oties Botanicals.

Otie's: My first order (maybe last) 3 weeks 1 day ago #52579

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Babel-17 wrote: I'd say that yours came from a rainy season harvesting, and while I've read that some good stuff can come from the rainy season, I've also read indications that a lot of very experienced consumers tend to avoid rainy season Kratom.


Now that, is interesting. I will definitely keep it in mind in the future. Do you know when the rainy season is? I've been using kratom for about 6 months and all orders placed from March 26 - June 7 2020, and I have had about 50/50 weak-bunk/good so far. I'm guessing most likely most of that came from the "jungle" from around January to May? No idea how long it takes from harvest to sale.

EDIT: According to a quick search, rainy season is ~Oct-February. Maybe I did get "rainy Kratom" if it takes a month or 3 to get moved and sold.
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Last edit: by Dude Guyman.

Otie's: My first order (maybe last) 3 weeks 2 days ago #52568

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I guess the seasons can make a difference, and even just batch to batch there can be a lot of variance. Last night I felt compelled to break out the Red Bentaguie I bought on October 21 last year. On the bottom of the bag is the batch number, 1022091919. Same number is on the other Kratom of the split key it's from.

It still worked well, so if I had to guess, I'd say that yours came from a rainy season harvesting, and while I've read that some good stuff can come from the rainy season, I've also read indications that a lot of very experienced consumers tend to avoid rainy season Kratom.

The Super Green Malay I got in that order is excellent, and I read a report on another forum that was at least as positive.

I hope they can at least do something about that "zero rating" Red Bentaguie you received. Getting so-so Kratom is just the luck of the draw at times, but a batch as bad as you describe shouldn't be OK, imo.
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Otie's: My first order (maybe last) 3 weeks 3 days ago #52565

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Final thoughts after using up my 4-way kilo over the last ~3.5 months. Pretty much the same as my initial thoughts except my opinion of the Red Bali has diminished to a "4" and the Red Bent to a "0". Red Bali was pretty weak, and the Red Bent was just...nothing. Bunk.
Both greens were good, not great.
I found a lot of what appeared to be 3/4-1 inch white-ish pet hair (some previous packaging material?) in the leaf and the previously mentioned clumpy stuff. So a bit "dirty", but honestly I wouldn't care if it was really good, but it was not. Then again I'm the type that will eat a potato chip off the floor! Hey, don't judge...4 second rule!
With the price hike since my first order combined with what I would call 50% bunk product, it will be my last.
Sorry Oties, got to be honest.
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Last edit: by Dude Guyman.

Otie's: My first order (maybe last) 3 months 1 week ago #51311

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Not stem n vein, but I haven’t had any like that. Interesting. Looks nice, tho. I’d give it a go! LOL love your spoon! Has a vintage look to it!
Laurie
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