Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me
22 Jun 2020
Good morning everyone, we'd like to welcome you to the new ILK Forum! We're in the process of finishing up all the the small details and will get everything done asap. This includes the new vendor pages, the daily and weekly special pages, the new blog sections, resource sections and more.

Please make sure to check out our approved vendors and don't be afraid to jump in there and ask questions and leave productive reviews.
~ I Love Kratom Forum Staff
Approved Vendors are Kratom Industry retailers that have undergone our review process, ensuring a certain level of security and best practices representing Kratom as a natural health alternative. In order to be approved, a vendor's website must: a) NOT promote Kratom in any way that could be construed as a "legal high", "recreational use" or similar; b) NOT contain medical claims of any kind; c) Contain a valid SSL certificate ensuring that information entered by a user is encrypted; d) Successfully pass a security scan yielding no threats; e) Provide easily accessible contact information that customers can use for prompt service and inquiries (preferably a phone number).

TOPIC:

Kwik Botanicals 11 months 4 days ago #41933

  • Laurie
  • Laurie's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Have a better day!
  • Posts: 6137
  • Karma: 92
  • Thank you received: 8764
So I wanted to reply to indicate my appreciation of your follow-up, Bilbo12 and I will reply when opportunity for interruption in my environment is less.

Thank you for sharing your adventures so far with Nature’s Cure!

More later!
Respectfully, Laurie

Later-

I had to change the topic because now the third vendor being discussed is not ILK APPROVED. In fact, I had to move ALL of the discussions that started under Garuda Kratom (approved) and Nature’s Cure. Both of which I still have ideas about.


Ack! Had to fix the header AGAIN because I was mistaken about KWIK KRATOM. Just because I haven’t tried them yet...I forgot they were approved before I became ADMIN...

So...

I’m wondering how you ended up shopping with Garuda Kratom when you got such interesting results from KWIK KRATOM. But I know how enticing good marketing can be.

To finish our discussion HERE. I don’t know why Nature’s Cure didn’t reply back to your inquiry about the difference in Mitragynine percentage between his regular kratom and the premium. I would invite him to reply IF this thread wasn’t already so confused. It’s a really good question that I would like to know.

GENERALLY vendors post it to be anywhere from 1.8-2.6% with some wiggle room. That’s JUST the Mitragynine percentage, NOT the 7-hydroxymitragynine FROM HOW I UNDERSTAND IT <—-subject to change.
I’m still learning this stuff and I have a learning disability as well. So that could be wrong.

Next time, I would try emailing the vendor and moving on if they don’t reply - as you did.

The 7-hydroxymitragynine has been the subject of confusion in marketing in the past. One vendor had some kratom with high Mitragynine and imperceptible 7-hydroxymitragynine and marketed it to entice people who are looking for all possible ways to avoid any dependence on a substance.
(I think it was Dr Jack Henningfield PHD who prints his study results and suggested that the 7-hydroxymitragynine MIGHT BE the alkaloid [known so far] that might be one of concern and further study is needed)
Well it caused a lot of people to think he lost his mind to sell kratom without active alkaloids and he removed the ad.

That’s all I know SO FAR. I would definitely NOT quote “Laurie from ILK forum” as well studied on the different alkaloids! The place to read more IS on this forum under KRATOM BLOGS. Paul has posted some incredible information about the leaf and I obviously need to READ IT AGAIN instead of CONTINUING this discussion.

Thanks so much, Bilbo12 for letting us know that you really get results from the - white maeng da at KWIK KRATOM. Please start a new thread when you shop again lol lol lol
I’ll be interested to hear about your adventures in kratom shopping.

I have some samples here from Garuda Kratom to try after I work on some new vendor introduction stuff (hopefully). I’d like to see what you missed from the miscommunication with this vendor...I’ll post under a new header as well.

Thanks for the dialogue, Bilbo12!

Laurie
Laurie
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tiggermanscrat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Laurie.

Kwik Botanicals 11 months 4 days ago #41932

  • bilbo12
  • bilbo12's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: 2
  • Thank you received: 22
The previous product I had success with for relief of muscles aches and pains, and even RLS (restless leg syndrome) was White Maeng Da from Kwik Botanicals, also known as Kwik Kratom. It produces a warm rush to the body 10-20 minutes after ingesting on a relatively empty stomach. That slightly euphoric rush to the body not only feels good (positive) but relieves the aches and pain (rid the negative). One of the main benefits is that it allows me to sleep at night. The aches and pains turn on mostly at night when going to bed. The new product we were discussing previously from Natures Cure produced virtually no feeling of the warm rush to the body. That's why it bothered me. I bought 1Kg of it and was concerned about being ripped off. Perhaps I was foolish, but after the experience of no reply from Scott I was feeling a little rushed. So, I looked at the positive points I saw, like having published lab tests, quick customer service response, and decided to just go for it. More prudent would have been to get a small sample to try out first.

Having said that, with more experimenting around with the new product, I have found there is some analgesic effect, but it is much more subtle. There is no noticeable rush to the body, but after a while, some of the aches and pain are just gone. Sort of sneaky relief. So I am thinking now that the product is not a total bust.

I am guessing (but still researching) that the Kwik Kratom product has much more 7-hydroxymitragynine content. So the addiction factor is of interest. There is some indication that this played a factor with me with this product. But that is a story for another time.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie, Tiggermanscrat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Hudson Valley Botanicals LLC - Garuda Kratom (5% off!) 11 months 4 days ago #41931

  • bilbo12
  • bilbo12's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: 2
  • Thank you received: 22
On Scott, OK, my bad. When you said you spoke to him, and that I don't want to know about what he said I assumed it was about me, not you. :)

Yes, as you discovered there is no disclosure of mitragynine % on the Natures Cure web site. He said it was 'premium' because it was a higher % than normal. So, what is normal and what exactly is the %. That would be very valuable information in assessing the product. So that is why I asked.

So it occurred to me that this thread is almost all about Natures Cure and my dealings with its products, and customer service with them, maybe the title should be changed to Natures Cure Kratom. Or transferred to a new thread. Just a thought.

As far as interacting with individual metabolisms I am sure there is *some* variation, and of course factors like if you just ate before ingesting kratom would influence it, but I think there is a large body of research, and anecdotal evidence, to show that certain strains have certain definite effects. All have a pain relief, or analgesic effect, it just varies as to how much from strain to strain.

One of my points was that 7-hydroxymitragynine is sometimes considered not as important in reviews I have read because its a relatively small percentage compared to mitragynine content. But 7-hydroxymitragynine is 30 TIMES more potent than mitragynine, and is responsible for almost all of the analgesic effect. Thus back to the importance of know the %s of each. You mentioned you thought 7-hydroxymitragynine might be addictive. This is possible --- do you know of any research data to support this, or is this anecdotal?

On my previous product, I think I should maybe do a separate post.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie, Tiggermanscrat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Hudson Valley Botanicals LLC - Garuda Kratom (5% off!) 11 months 6 days ago #41899

  • Laurie
  • Laurie's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Have a better day!
  • Posts: 6137
  • Karma: 92
  • Thank you received: 8764
PS: bilbo12-after all my yakking, please share how you found adequate pain relieving product from this point and where from (ENSO BOTANICALS?)
Laurie
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tiggermanscrat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Laurie.

Hudson Valley Botanicals LLC - Garuda Kratom (5% off!) 11 months 6 days ago #41898

  • Laurie
  • Laurie's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Have a better day!
  • Posts: 6137
  • Karma: 92
  • Thank you received: 8764
EDIT TO ABOVE: Nature’s Cure does not have Mitragynine percentage posted. So that’s probably what you asked? But it seemed like a longer question than what is the percentage. And telling him it wasn’t as good as another vendor probably indicated you MOVED ON? I would assume you were just insulting the kratom and not ACTUALLY interested in the numbers.

EDIT: I’m NOT speaking/typing on behalf of any of the vendors mentioned herein.
Laurie
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tiggermanscrat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Laurie.

Hudson Valley Botanicals LLC - Garuda Kratom (5% off!) 11 months 6 days ago #41897

  • Laurie
  • Laurie's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Have a better day!
  • Posts: 6137
  • Karma: 92
  • Thank you received: 8764
Bilbo12 -

Scott NEVER said ANYTHING about you - positive or negative or otherwise.

He simply told me to “butt out” of how he handles things.

I did find the initial name you were looking for right on the website. But I was there at a different time than you were.

I surmised that you SHOULD try a vendor who can interact with you throughout the transaction and you picked a fine one.

I wasn’t clear on your last inquiry with Joel as to how he would prove his premium has higher Mitragynine content because the lab results are IT. The rest is metabolism related. I haven’t read Joel’s website - perhaps the Mitragynine percentage of the premium is not posted? Probably because he JUST RESTOCKED and it varies from batch to batch. Most vendors post a range of percentage. Is that what you wrote him for? Mitragynine percentage?

That’s where I also got distracted and moved on. His numbers are posted, but there are no “guaranteed effects” with the leaf that I am aware of.

Sounds like you FOUND some leaf that meets your metabolism very well! Please share how that came about?

Incidentally, I’ve had 2 of the most potent products in my “rotation for difficult days but not enhanced” pile today, bags with notes of caution, were absolutely less than potent IN MY METABOLISM TODAY. So I know that different area in there. I cannot hit it today. Tried and tried. And tried. Must have been something to do with what I ate and when or SOMETHING in my metabolism was apparently different today...just sharing that there are no guarantees, no matter how potent. Some days I don’t respond to ANYTHING. Frustrating, painful day.

In closing, I THINK the 7-hydroxymitragynine is said to be possibly the most known to be addicting part of the alkaloid profile SO FAR and therefore many vendors are trying to get less of that potentially problematic alkaloid. Joel’s premium kratom SHOULD HAVE higher Mitragynine percentage but hopefully not the other. I’m surprised that was not provided on the lab results. Many premium products do list that percentage on the website rather than the label, since it changes from batch to batch, but many just list a range of percentages since each scoop is unique. At least that’s how I have been led to understand it with the 7-hydroxymitragynine. Downplay is not the word I would use to describe the 7-hydroxymitragynine.

Please correct me! I learn that I’m wrong about SOMETHING ABSOLUTELY EVERY DAY. That’s the only way I learn! Ha!

Thanks for the follow up!
Laurie
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tiggermanscrat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Hudson Valley Botanicals LLC - Garuda Kratom (5% off!) 11 months 6 days ago #41894

  • bilbo12
  • bilbo12's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: 2
  • Thank you received: 22
Also, I did some further research on the active ingredients in all kratom, mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine. I found that the data on this is misleading at many sources. There is a research article that explains that while 7-hydroxymitragynine is found in much lower concentration than mitragynine, that it is very very much more powerful. And the kicker is that its sole property is pain relief. So this means that this often downplayed ingredient could be very important to have in adequate concentration if you are looking specifically for pain relif. Ref: ensobotanicals.com/mitragynine-and-7-hydroxymitrag...s-primary-alkaloids/
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie, Tiggermanscrat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Hudson Valley Botanicals LLC - Garuda Kratom (5% off!) 11 months 6 days ago #41893

  • bilbo12
  • bilbo12's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: 2
  • Thank you received: 22
Thanks for your response, Laurie.

Well, to hear your story it sounds like you think what you get when you order is pretty much a crap shoot. :) As far as pain relief, this is listed in most reference sites, like Kratom Science, as an attribute in all strains. It is just a matter of relative strength to other strains. For example, see this rating of White Thai: thebolditalic.com/tbis-5-best-best-casual-hiking-c...the-bay-55e03a059293 . If you look on the left side you will see a list of most other strains and if you click you can see a similar chart for their rankings. So, I think the issue here is not just that randomness is involved in obtaining product, and/or individual variations in response, but whether the product is legit, or has been misrepresented.

As far as % of mitragynine goes, it wasn't that it was hard to find or interpret on the lab reports. You can look at the lab reports for Nature's Cure here: naturescurekratom.com/current-lab-tests/ . As you can see it does take a rocket scientist to read them. Its just that all the lab tests show is tests for bad materials. I think this is great that this is being done and needed to make sure we don't have poisonous material in our product. However, it doesn't report on the % of mitragynine, or 7-hydroxymitragynine. So I think my question is legitimate when I asked Joel at Natures Cure how it was determined the product was 'premium'. Remember before our special deal he was selling this for $50/kg more than product that was not 'premium'. And add to that the fact that my experience with it was much inferior to the previous product I got which was not 'premium'.

As far as Scott goes at HVB, I am not sure what his problem is. Sounds like you are saying he made some nasty comment about me. The facts are I sent a very polite email, which I included in one of my original posts, and *never* heard a word back from, even to this day. It is interesting that he would comment about me behind my back but not respond to me directly. I am not sure what is up with this guy, but don't really care at this point. :) But thanks for letting me know.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie, Tiggermanscrat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Hudson Valley Botanicals LLC - Garuda Kratom (5% off!) 11 months 1 week ago #41801

  • Laurie
  • Laurie's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Platinum Boarder
  • Have a better day!
  • Posts: 6137
  • Karma: 92
  • Thank you received: 8764
Hello bilbo-12. Those are some high expectations of kratom, for sure. I’ve never had that experience yet. Especially not with a white vein. But I applaud you for ASKING.

As to the Mitragyna content and what exactly that means is still up to individual interpretation because it affects people differently regardless of that number. I think. I have had some great experiences with the higher content products and many I cannot tell the difference. Some are high on percentage and I don’t have any benefits. That’s what we call a “no fly” bag and it goes to the back of the bag for a future try (Which has sometimes gleaned magical results).

The vendors are still new to having lab tests DONE and I don’t think many have become experts at evaluating what those tests mean aside from Dr Jack Henningfield, PHD. Certainly not me. I suppose the vendors are a bit busy and they are not comfortable with saying it totally depends!

Unless I am reordering from the exact same batch of leaf, I’ve never tried having preconceived expectations as to how it will help. The leaf and my metabolism decide and they LET ME KNOW. Especially when it’s an unfamiliar (new) vendor experience.

I’ve only found one white that helped me sleep. It’s gone and I’ve not tried many that might replace it. They come in the same packaging, but that’s no guarantee. Whites have been mostly problematic for my heart (rapid heart rate and anxiety exasperated) with very little pain relief, so I only stumbled upon that one white vein that put me out by accident. I was sick and needed emergency energy to walk dogs (we took naps instead). No wave of pain relief came with it. Just an urgent nap.

I’m sorry to hear you didn’t get the sort of assistance with your ordering that likely is required to get what you can use.

Please don’t give up. I actually did have follow up on your original problem and I had good reason to not reply further (nothing you’ll want to hear). So I also “let it go”.

I hope you are able to continue to find that sort of kratom AND customer service to help on your search. Scott at HudsonValley is still a one man show and I’m not sure his white vein will do that. I am sure it CAN take days to get a reply to email inquiries, but I got replies.

I am STILL interested in your next move!
Laurie
The following user(s) said Thank You: Tiggermanscrat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Hudson Valley Botanicals LLC - Garuda Kratom (5% off!) 11 months 1 week ago #41796

  • bilbo12
  • bilbo12's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Fresh Boarder
  • Posts: 11
  • Karma: 2
  • Thank you received: 22
I also wrote more, with additional questions: "On a more personal experience level, I have found so far that the effect of the "White Thai Kratom" you sold me does not have the sense of relaxation and warm feelings to the body that I am used to. I have been using White Maeng Da for quite a file and it produces a rush to the body of relaxing slightly euphoric feelings, and is anti-pain. This is beneficial to me since my main practical use is as a sleep aid (I tend to be a bit of an insomniac) and along with that problem I have aches in my legs that keep me awake. Kratom has been solving these problems. However, the 'premium' White Thai seems to be more of a slight effect to the head producing a little bit of a spacey feeling and hardly any affect on the body as far as relaxation. Do you think this batch is just not as potent as it is supposed to be or its the wrong strain, or what?

Which leads to a different question. If the effect is determined solely by the % mitragynine why do different strains produce different effects?

www.kratomscience.com/strains-effects-and-dosage/ ".

Again, no reply in 5 days. So I wondered if anyone in the forum might enlighten me on some of my questions.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie, Tiggermanscrat

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Moderators: kemppaulh
Time to create page: 0.257 seconds