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Thanks Laurie!! Congrats in becoming admin. Love the new look of ILK.
That thread was rather old but I needed to thank all those that replied. I was in a bad place during my first post. I got out of a toxic relationship in June (You know the one). I stayed despite his lying, cheating, and stealing. I know I deserve better. I’m working on myself & my issues rather than trying to fix someone else. Over time he wore down my self esteem. He began using AGAIN and didn’t care if he dragged me down with him. Actually, that’s what he wanted, I believe. He’s in jail AGAIN!
Take Care Everyone
Last edit: by Usernametaken.
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Welcome back to the forum, usernametaken! Very good to see you're reaching out for support here.
This place is a wonderful support system.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Usernametaken
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I just want to give a heartfelt thanks to those that reached out to me. It means a lot more than you probably realize. Surreal, we may not know each other personallly but we’ve struggled with some of the same issues & we bond through that. Bomalley, I agree depression/ pain / both physical & emotional/ and addiction are definitely related. Depressed people have more complaints of physical pain. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction to Gabor Mate. Chris you’re a man of integrity and were the only vendor to reach out to me. Thanks for that!!
PTSD now called PTSS Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome actually changes our brains. It’s no longer classified as a disorder. I don’t think I talked about it in my first post but I definitely have it. I’ve heard about Neuroplascity (Sp??) on Dr. Phil. Sometimes I really think Dr. Phil is the only one who can refer me to the appropriate professionals to find out what’s going on in my brain. I’ve wanted to write the show for some time now.
I’d like to try acupuncture for depression too. Once when I went to my first detox they used acupuncture for w/d & relaxation. I was very skeptical to say the least. With one treatment of acupuncture needles in each ear I fell asleep almost immediately. That made a believer outta me!!
Also looking into Ketamine Infusions for depression but they’re very expensive $500 each infusion and they recommend starting with 3 over 3 days then a short break and then 3 more. The testimonials I’ve read are astonishing. People come to the states from countries that don’t offer it for treatment. There’s an office in NYC & also in Pittsburgh that offers this treatment. The treatments themselves are done by licensed anesthesiologists. Though no long term studies have been done, short term studies show promise. Most ppl need another infusion anywhere from a month to 3 months later. Nasal sprays & tablets are currently being tested by Pharma companies. They Might be available as soon as this year. That would help cut down
number of Infusions needed. They use a very small amount of ketamine n the Infusions. I personally called the office in Pitt and the Dr. talked to me on
2 different occasions for at least a 1/2 hr. There’s a very comprehensive packet that you must complete in order to be considered for this. It’s only for those who have tried multiple psyc meds for depression or a combo w/ little to no relief and struggle w/ daily functioning. Some ppl have said that after the first infusion they feel a huge weight lifted, within hours some no longer have suicidal thoughts! Ketamine used to be used by Vets as a tranquilizer. However, it’s also used in humans as an Anesthetic. I had broken both my ulna and radius and they gave me ketamine for surgery. For some reason, it took seven injections for me to fall asleep though.
Unfortunately it’s not covered by insurance & though some insurance covers acupuncture I don’t believe mine does. Sorry I got a bit off topic.
I just wanted to mention alternatives to relieve depression. Ketamine doesn’t work like the antidepressants that are on the market. It’s a dissociative. You can still get ketamine and stay on your psych meds. However, if you’re on benzos that can interfere with the ketamine. The Drs. will tell you how much you can take so that it doesn’t interfere. If anyone’s interested in more information I’ll gladly provide it. Or google Ketamine Infusions for depression and pain. Oh, I forgot it helps with pain too!
Last edit: by Usernametaken. Reason: Spelling
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I am so glad you reached out! that in itself is a big step!
I will add a bit of my own knowledge here for what it is worth.
In your brain the centers for Depression and pain are side by side....so it is VERY common for people in pain to become depressed and of course lots of people who present with depression are found to have problems with chronic pain.
Gabor Mate says in most of his writings that all addiction starts with pain! Please search on this guys name---lots of good videos online.
Depression, pain, addiction. These are not separate issues...they are one and the same, or at least all tangled up together.
"Fewer faces and more spaces"
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie, Usernametaken
Last edit: by bomalley.
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I wanted to send you a hug and some hope, as hard as it may be to see and accept.
I can relate to much that you're saying. I hear you. Underlying depression can be really hard to cope with when juggling chronic pain and addiction. I've been there, and can say that it can be managed so you can live and smile because you feel like it.
I'm glad from your recent post that it seems like you are feeling a bit better. Keep fighting. Keep riding it out. Those times when the storm clears are so worth it!
I know I'm some random person, so I may not know you. But from your first post it really sounds like your sense of self worth is very low. It sounds like you feel you are not deserving of feeling happy. If I'm wrong just ignore me. But I know it's a common feeling you are not alone with. And I am going to remind you: you deserve to be happy. you deserve to not hurt. you deserve to not hurt yourself. you deserve to be treated and treat yourself with kindness and love.
When it's so drilled into your brain that you're not worthy, it takes time and lots of reminders to re-train your brain so you can start to believe it.
Antidepressants can be an emotional rollercoaster even when they don't work. The hope we have that they will work, or the belief that nothing will, it's all very stressful. It really is a matter of finding which one works for you. I am personally resistant to anti-depressants and have tried all of them, many more than once. But I found one that works for me finally at this point in time in my life (my brain chemistry, physiology, whatever you want to call it). That took me by surprise after trying a new one every few months for over a decade. But it happened. And it CAN happen for you too! The key is not getting discouraged and taking them regularly and long enough.
Antidepressants can't do it all as I'm sure you know. You still need to find what's making you feel like you need to use. As long as you're feeling this way, it leaves little room for positive feelings to take root and flourish. Time for some mental negative emotion weed whacking! Do you have a support system? Do you see someone you can talk to? Psychiatrists mainly take the medication and physical approach to treating you. Also someone or somewhere (such as groups) specifically for drug use or chronic pain (I don't know all your struggles) would be very beneficial.
The key is to work the programs. Keep going to your sessions/meetings. Routine helps.
Getting you out of your mind and occupied is a great way to start shedding the negativity so you can make room to learn how to fit in what makes you happy and lets you learn to love yourself.
You're a beautiful being and your body and mind deserves to be loved, most importantly by you.
If you want any help finding supports or to chat or any techniques that may help with coping, just message me. I'm available and would be glad to help.
Take care of you
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie, Usernametaken
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Glad to hear you are doing better. Hopefully something I've said below is helpful to you.
I was just talking to my girlfriend tonight about how if we lived in a more kind society then people would be able to keep any/all of their struggles less of a secret and we could actually do more as a society. Conventional wisdom says that addicts keep secrets because of the nature of the disease. They want to keep using and they can't make decisions that jeopardize their freedom to be able to use. I think there are more reasons that addicts keep secrets. Drugs aren't the only problem. Why do people want to self-medicate? Why are there receptors in our brains that allow drugs to effect us in the ways in which they do?
Addiction to hard drugs was the scariest thing I've ever faced in my life. My parents still don't accept it, or know what to say to me. I became something completely alien to them. I lost control of myself utterly. I became a monster. I wasn't violent. I tried my best not to hurt anyone other than myself, and I pretty much succeeded there. I realized that I wasn't helping my friends by using with them, and in that way I hurt them. I hurt my family badly just by being the person I was. I never stole from anyone I knew, but I was still a monster.
The cravings were as pure and empty as Antarctica. My mind became like that landscape. "I need. I want. I must have this." I thought drugs gave me what the rest of the world had. Confidence, a sense of belonging, the slightest sense of stability. I'm not sure what came first, the chicken, or the egg. Did I never have those things, or after I got clean off of drugs was I permanently lacking...something, or some things because of how being an addict and witnessing things that gave me PTSD changed me? I used to meditate on wanting to go back in time before I went off course. That is what I focused on when I first got clean and it worked. I wanted to go back to being 8 or 9 years old. I could still remember what it felt like, what I enjoyed, pieces of my dreams or how I thought/felt about what I wanted to do. I wanted to be a veterinarian, a psychologist, a musician. I think it worked, but today I know that I was heading for disaster then. The schools I went to were full of kids who were either directionless, separated in their own minds by class and social status, trying to avenge their parents and make up for all of the pain their parents endured, hurt and confused people.
I played dumb every day when I'd ride the bus. If you had a dead look in your eye no one would bother you. My father used to tell stories about how he'd get stoned with his highschool and college friends. He'd tell me a story like that frequently so I thought that's what I should do to be cool. That is kind of the only way you get to be cool though. You at least have to drink alcohol. So what were we doing? Were we just trying to make ourselves feel better? Weren't drug users also supposed to gain some sort of enlightenment through their experiences? Aren't they like modern day pseudo-shamans? Isn't that what all the music is about? Even in country music, if you go to the bar and have a few beers you are going to have such a good time that you might as well be partying with the holy spirit. You're going to actually communicate with your friends, or strangers, and if you're lucky, end up performing a fairly sacred act with someone you find attractive.
So why do we get so much hate? Aren't we a valuable part of society? Don't people make music that touches our souls on drugs? The coldness most people have to face day after day in regular old sober life doesn't help. I told my girlfriend tonight that over the past decade or so I've noticed a reduction in what I'm interested in, and I blamed our culture in part, and also the aging process. Everything has been narrowing our focus lately. There's this feeling that seems like "All the old music, childish compared to what we listen to today. The musicians from the 40s to the early 2000s had no idea what kind of darkness we would have to live in. All of the tension I felt at school when I was a kid has boiled over and kids are committing mass murder on a regular basis. All the celebrities are horribly flawed people. All my heroes except Mr. Rogers are criminals. Bill Cosby just went to jail. Tom Petty overdosed on heroin. There's not even a reason to eat dinner anymore."
I think about someone like Ghandi and I can't even begin to relate to the world he lived in. Then I try to remember Martin Luther King Jr. and what he fought for, and it all seems like it didn't make the slightest bit of difference. All of the love in the world, the highest of thoughts, none of it can help a single person living today. Almost every news story is framed in a passionless, shallow, discouraging way. What human rights are we fighting for currently? The right to be accepted, right? That's what all of the laws boil down to. Equal opportunity, gender, gun rights, etc. They are all centered around people wanting to be accepted for who they are. Eleanor Roosevelt said that small minds discuss people, average minds discuss events, and exceptional minds discuss ideas. The only thing left in this world for me is self expression and science. My peers are still heavily focused on interpersonal relationships but they stagnate because we are too focused on them. We aren't changing anymore because we're adults right? You can't fix anything that happened now because you're not supposed to be bothered by it. You're hard-wired. There's nothing you could get out of anyone in your past that could truly help you because look at the world we live in. We are crippled intellectually and therefore emotionally or spiritually. You can't cry. You can't change. You're in the big leagues now and all those bus rides you spent trying to look dead inside have taken their toll. You are dead inside.
That's the message I get from everything around me. That's what I'm stuck with when I have this burning passion. I hope you can still relate to me because while I'm using myself as an example I think at least part of this is true for many people. I need to connect to the larger world in some way. If what I've said is true then I have to talk to other people. There's no way I can fix any of this myself. Abraham Maslow was a psychologist who I think had some great ideas. He first interested me because he said that all of psychology was focused on disease, and he wondered why no one had made a psychology of health. He made the first self-help book. His hierarchy of needs is: Food | Shelter/Safety | Love/belonging | Esteem | Self-actualization . The highest level of human functioning is self actualization, but to get there you need all of the lower level needs met. You need food, shelter, a sense of greater security through social interaction, to be respected in your society and to be satisfied with your own works, skills, abilities, or contributions to that society. The last phase of adulthood is giving back to the world through teaching children and other people. This is my current inspiration for wanting to continue on with life. To do something.
Right now I want to be able to drive all night long, feel and smell the wind blowing through the trees in the country, listen to music, and be interested in the world again. What if I get pulled over? The fear of being judged is crippling. I have no security or esteem. I have almost no love/belonging either because I am ashamed and don't talk to my family. I barely have food and shelter because I live paycheck to paycheck. Somehow I am able to at least try and communicate something that I think has some substance to it.
Relapses are part of recovery. I hope that even when you are facing such insurmountable obstacles that you never give up.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie, Usernametaken
Last edit: by windyanimal.
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Thanks to all if you who replied. Kratom has been very helpful for my pain issues, anxiety and staying away from pain meds and illicit substances. However, for some reason it doesn’t seem to help my depression like it does for others. This is the longest I’ve been out of kratom and I’ve realized just how much it help with my pain.
Thanks to Catspaw, Nan, windyanimal and COB.
I suspect others didn’t respond because they didn’t know what to say....
Windyanimal the study you referenced makes a lot of sense. I’m on several antidepressants but they don’t seem to help much. Loneliness is a major issue for me.
I’m not using now at all now. I had used a handful of times sporadically.. The last thing I wanted was to repeat mistakes of my past.
Chris I’ll be in touch.
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Very true words and I couldn't have said it better myself.
I tried to comment earlier but I was told I was spam.
The words of advice are there and you deserve the best version of you!
We always provide top quality organic kratom at reasonable prices.
God bless and have a great day.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Laurie, Usernametaken, Nan70, windyanimal
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I'm not sure that my words will help. I believe that if there are circumstances in your life that make you very unhappy you are more prone to relapse or use. There was a scientific article published not long ago that used mice in two different settings. One setting was a solitary cage where they had a choice between food/water and cocaine. The other setting was called "Rat Park" and it was populated by several mice who all had access to drugs, but they also had mouse wheels, tunnels to go through, fun stuff to do.
The mice in Rat Park initially tried the cocaine and went back for it several times but eventually stopped altogether. In the other setting solitary mice were heavily addicted to cocaine. They would starve themselves and just keep doing cocaine. Then, they were taken out of the solitary environment and put in Rat Park. It took a few days, maybe weeks, but they stopped using altogether.
If there are circumstances that are making you miserable try your best to get out of there. My best friend lives in a very poor area in absolutely miserable conditions. He has to get out but he is so ashamed he can't move. He and his family have the money but they don't want to go out into the light, don't believe they deserve something better. He does. You do too.
The following user(s) said Thank You: C.O.B, Usernametaken
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I wanted to reach out to you this morning but I didn’t know the words to say. I cannot offer advice from experience. I did not want to generically say seek steady professional help. So this morning I could not find any words to type.
I would like to reach out now and say depression needs treatment like other conditions and you are not to blame for suffering from depression. I cannot image not trying to help my chronic pain or my attempts to alleviate it were more destruction. Don't allow guilty feelings to negatively affect you, this helps no one, not you or your loved ones. You can allow feelings of guilt but it’s important to recognized it’s a completely normal reaction and its human.
You cannot be perfect. You can work to help yourself. But not with self-destructive self-medication. You are aware this is happening now you need to learn coping skills to help you turn this around. It’s not coping with avoidance. If kratom was some help with your depression do not allow it to run out. And find other useful none harming backups and keep them available. Don’t leave yourself to choose destruction options. Your depressed self might convince you don’t deserve any better; you do deserve better to be healthy and have better options.
Get something to eat, maybe with your mom. You will be able to pull through this.
Take care of yourself
The following user(s) said Thank You: C.O.B, Usernametaken, catspaw1955