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TOPIC: Is it really a potentiator???

Is it really a potentiator??? 3 weeks 4 days ago #47493

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I wanted to take a minute to discuss potentiating kratom. This is usually the thing I get the most questions about and want to help folks understand. There's a number of things that we label as potentiating, but I think we often label tolerance reducers and bioavailability in this category as well. This is a huge problem, as I see many folks taking things at the wrong time, and wonder why they have to increase their dose instead of decrease. It's important to distinguish these to continue to get the desired relief with the least amount.

Potentiating - makes the kratom (immediate dose) have more pronounced effects by interacting with the mitra or 7HOM.

Reducing Tolerance - makes the kratom (next dose) have a more pronounced effects by relieving/reseting receptors/antagonists.

Bioavailability - makes the kratom have more pronounced effects by making the mitra/7HOM more bioavailable


These are three very different effects to "potentiate." In saying, each thing you do for the effect has a good timing associated with it to get the best results. I'm less concerned about definitions, but more interested in making sure folks get the best burns possible.

Take for instance citric acid. I see a lot of folks claiming to mix this with the kratom powder to make the mitra more potent and label it as a potentiating and best to steep it. When the kratom is steeped in the citric, yes, some of the plant matter decomposes faster, but realistically, this is the same as the effect of your stomach acid (think acid/base) and will also bind with some of the mitra, forming weaker alkaloids (again acid/base). Depending on powder grind, time steeped, temperature, and strength of citrus, the plant matter break down could beat out the alkaloid bindings, but there's a lot of variables to consider to get this into a sweet spot (difficult to get consistent net gain). In this description and use, we should label as bioavailability, not necessarily potentiating as it could actually negatively affect the burn.

One might ask, "Well what about the red bubble....?" I'd tell you the whole goal for red bubble isn't to potentiate, but to remove the plant matter completely so the alkaloids are more bioavailable. During the process, yes some alkaloids bind to the acidity, but for the most part the freezing/boiling and steeping together makes the bioavailability outweigh the small amount of lost alkaloids.

If using citrus, I'd just drink it 30 min - 1 hour before the dose to put your body in a more alkaline state, allowing it to absorb more alkaloids, as your body processes citrus as alkaline. This actually is potentiating as the body would now be more alkaline and the perceived effects of more alkaloids would be greater. This also would result in a consistent net benefit, rather than the above earlier example. If doing this with the red bubble, you'd really be on to something.

Another example is turmeric. We often label it as a potentiator. It has effects to reset receptors, but when taken with/before kratom, it can also effect your burn negatively. Turmeric is often used with curcumin to further activate the turmeric. Together they are a great antioxidant. Do you know what your body needs to convert mitra to 7HOM (the more stronger alkaloid of the two)? It needs free radical oxygens (what antioxidants get rid of). Additionally, the receptor binding that the turmeric can relief, also can remove the binding effect that kratom has. So while it will reduce some tolerance, it will also block some of the effects, and negatively affect the body's ability to convert mitra to 7HOM (again lots of variables to get net gain). This is more a tolerance reducer, and should not really be taken near a dose.

I would advise to use turmeric between doses, preferably the ones with the biggest time gap. This allows for the reset without blocking the effects or reducing 7HOM conversion (net gain).

When reading about making your burn better, it's important to look at why the particular thing would/would not affect the burn. Properly identifying when to take something potentiating or tolerance reducing is important to keep your dose low and consistent.
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Last edit: by FusedFlora.

Is it really a potentiator??? 3 weeks 4 days ago #47501

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Excellent distinctions, all well said, imo.

So, coffee or Rhodiola can potentiate Kratom's effects in the daytime, while Theanine or Valerian could potentiate its effects if taken to help with sleep, or relaxation?
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Is it really a potentiator??? 3 weeks 4 days ago #47506

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shaun

you blow my mind. seriously. I know babel fully understands. I kinda get it. certainly understand it more. perfect timing too cause im in the middle of a full reset.

do you have a science/ biology degree? really beyond what us average leaf heads regurgitate. and what is red bubble? never heard of that one. when is it best used and how? does high alkaline water work? you got my mind jogging now... I did buy real grapefruits before my break lol..had to dilute it with club but it worked great.
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Is it really a potentiator??? 3 weeks 4 days ago #47520

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Very Interesting & makes sense!! Thanks for the clarification. Like Michele, I’ve never heard of the “Red Bubble” can you plz describe this process?

Much Thanx,
Dawn

Edit: What do you think of taking kratom before or at same time as yogurt?
“Unthinking respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth”


“Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one”

-Albert Einstein
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Last edit: by Usernametaken.

Is it really a potentiator??? 3 weeks 4 days ago #47525

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Very interesting, thank you for sharing this!
Always providing the best products at great prices. TopExtracts.com

New customers use code Welcome Friends and receive 15% off your first order!

Jim
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Is it really a potentiator??? 3 weeks 3 days ago #47543

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The red bubble refers to the freezing method. You mix a little water (1 oz) with a little kratom (2-5 gr) and a small red bubble appears when frozen well. I use this method most times now as its convenient to have it pre measured in the freezer. And it does help the effects especially with coarser grinds or more mature leaf.

Great post FusedFlora, thank you for taking the time to share this info, it is very valuable. This is the first time i read this info on the tumeric mecanism of action and timing. Cheers :)
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Last edit: by CanadianTW.

Is it really a potentiator??? 3 weeks 3 days ago #47546

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Babel-17 wrote: Excellent distinctions, all well said, imo.

So, coffee or Rhodiola can potentiate Kratom's effects in the daytime, while Theanine or Valerian could potentiate its effects if taken to help with sleep, or relaxation?


Correct for the GABA. The GABA effects of the Theanine and Valerian can enhance the perceived effects of the burn. However, the alkaloids reactions from valerian root are not well studied, I can't find anything on what they do. I suspect they could potentially trigger receptors as well (I'll stay away from it until I learn more).

Caffeine in coffee speeds digestion and metabolism allowing the body to absorb the alkaloids faster. However, it can also create anxiety. In my 10 min Google search, I couldn't find the chemicals active in Rhodiola and would have to look into this one further as well.

michele373 wrote: shaun

you blow my mind. seriously. I know babel fully understands. I kinda get it. certainly understand it more. perfect timing too cause im in the middle of a full reset.

do you have a science/ biology degree? really beyond what us average leaf heads regurgitate. and what is red bubble? never heard of that one. when is it best used and how? does high alkaline water work? you got my mind jogging now... I did buy real grapefruits before my break lol..had to dilute it with club but it worked great.


I work in environmental management, specifically I do a lot of analysis of how chemical spills/dumps/releases affect plants and animals. Anatomy and physiology don't change much really.

Red bubble as Canadian said, is a method of freezing kratom to draw the alkaloids out. It can also refer to boiling (simmer really) under 180 degrees to get the alkaloids out. I was mainly referring to tea. Both destroy some of the plant matter and release alkaloids. These are beneficial if one can't handle the powder.

imgur.com/a/oMN6g
Here's a guide to the tea method, notice the deep brilliant red color we call the "red bubble."

Alkaline water is good as well as any alkaline foods. Basically, the more you prepare your body, the better the burn will be. Realistically though, diet, hydration, and exercise are the best potentiators IMHO. I would tell you the type of grapefruit is important, as some produce awesome enzymes for liver functions, but the others don't.

Check out this chart for a list of nice things to put your body alkaline. Notice the acidic citrus on the left side... Again, your body processes them alkaline.

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Is it really a potentiator??? 3 weeks 3 days ago #47572

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wow.

thank you for the chart and the explanations.

your knowledge is above most, I knew your specialty was based on science in one way or another! very helpful. I just cook for a living lol. to me that's pretty simple. feed hungry people.

the red bubble is interesting. just wasn't familiar with that.

yeah, ill be able to get white grapefruit in a few months, none around me anywhere right now. even the nice produce market I go to. but I figure fresh is better than the 30g sugar bottled stuff.

I do appreciate the lesson! =D> >:D
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Is it really a potentiator??? 3 weeks 3 days ago #47577

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michele373 wrote: wow.

thank you for the chart and the explanations.

your knowledge is above most, I knew your specialty was based on science in one way or another! very helpful. I just cook for a living lol. to me that's pretty simple. feed hungry people.

the red bubble is interesting. just wasn't familiar with that.

yeah, ill be able to get white grapefruit in a few months, none around me anywhere right now. even the nice produce market I go to. but I figure fresh is better than the 30g sugar bottled stuff.

I do appreciate the lesson! =D> >:D


No worries, I just hope this helps some folks do the right thing and drop their dose a bit or get back on track.
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Is it really a potentiator??? 3 weeks 3 days ago #47581

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it certainly will.

haven't taken any regular leaf since the morning of the 2nd. now im going to go as long as I can ( till work picks up! ) golf club in CT isn't too appealing right now.. lol

now ill start again stronger and more informed on many levels. and probably a more normal dose!
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