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Betuangie Kratom (fermented method) 4 months 4 days ago #48742

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Yes and most of the time you probably wont if i had to guess id say about 75% of the Kratom labeled Bentuangie is just a mix of kratoms of from that region. Ive now tried 5 samples of Bent and only one of them at a lesser 7grams gave me a great euphoria, the others were just regular kratom to me. I think Fused Flora said it best that it depends on how well crafted the farmer is in the fermentation process cause thats what it comes down to and even then its hit or miss. The fermentation process has the ability to strengthen a kratoms alkaloids and change them to become super effective and strong but it also has the ability to destroy the kratom. The process has to be done just right in order for it to work properly. I'm gonna do some shopping around though to find a vendor who carries legit Bentuangie and if i come across one i will be sure to give an update.

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Betuangie Kratom (fermented method) 4 months 5 days ago #48740

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I have not found the red bent I use to be any more/less effective that many of the other reds I use.

But thanks for the links...very interesting reading!
BEV

"Fewer faces and more spaces"

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Betuangie Kratom (fermented method) 4 months 1 week ago #48612

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Recent studies indicate that mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine bind to and partially activate human µ-opioid receptors, the same receptors fully triggered by morphine. Also, it was reported that the compound mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, generated by fermenting mitragynine, is an even more potent activator of µ-opioid receptors than mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine . Mice treated with a typical painkilling dose of mitragynine pseudoindoxyl experienced little respiratory depression, a common side effect of opioids such as morphine. These are early evidence of therapeutic potential for the plant compounds and their derivatives that can be produced semisynthetically.

The u-opioid receptor is that which regulates dopamine so they are stating that mitragynine psuedoindoxyl is a more potent activator which means a higher release of dopamine which leads to euphoria and pleasure

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Betuangie Kratom (fermented method) 4 months 1 week ago #48610

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Mscanlan4803 wrote: just to show you ill post a few links to where you can read the studies and claims of why its supported that psuedoindoxyl is stronger.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragynine_pseudoindoxyl

grantome.com/grant/NIH/F32-GM078910-01A1

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3714104/


www.pyxislabs.com/2017-3-6-kratom-and-its-alkaloids/

Recent studies indicate that mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine bind to and partially activate human µ-opioid receptors, the same receptors fully triggered by morphine. Also, it was reported that the compound mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, generated by fermenting mitragynine, is an even more potent activator of µ-opioid receptors than mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine. Mice treated with a typical painkilling dose of mitragynine pseudoindoxyl experienced little respiratory depression, a common side effect of opioids such as morphine. These are early evidence of therapeutic potential for the plant compounds and their derivatives that can be produced semisynthetically.

core.ac.uk/download/pdf/95356094.pdf

Initial investigations used in vitro radioligand binding assays with cell lines stably
expressing murine opioid receptors (Figure 2, Table 1). Mitragynine (1) showed poor affinity at
all opioid receptors, whereas 7-hydroxymitragynine (2) showed moderate affinity at the mu
opioid receptor clone MOR-1, 5-fold higher than 1, and was considerably more potent at the
expressed delta opioid receptor clone DOR-1 than 1.
44 Mitragynine pseudoindoxyl (3) displayed
the highest overall binding affinity for MOR-1 and DOR-1 (Ki 0.8 nM and 3 nM, respectively)
while also showing a moderate affinity for KOR-1 . These data suggest that conversion of the
indole to indolenine ring to the spiro-pseudoindoxyl core dramatically increases affinity for
opioid receptors.



First, I want to say thanks. Your approach is awesome and I appreciate the discussion. I think we'll both get something out of this.

Could you reference which portion denotes it as "stronger?" I read through each of these, and the conclusions and they each only state that MGP acts as an stronger agonist on certain receptors, it is negligible on the others, and actually acting as a antagonist on some. That doesn't support that it is stronger, only that it is stronger at hitting certain receptors, even relieving other receptors.

I'll see if I can find the study for composite analysis of the effects on the receptors and send it. Currently in class until end of March, might have to wait to send until i get back to work.

Regardless, if I've reversed the two, the same holds true that fermentation is difficult to get right and is a gamble in most cases. I think I missed mentioning that further fermentation eventually could start to break the alkaloids down.
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Last edit: by FusedFlora.

Betuangie Kratom (fermented method) 4 months 2 weeks ago #48446

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just to show you ill post a few links to where you can read the studies and claims of why its supported that psuedoindoxyl is stronger.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitragynine_pseudoindoxyl

grantome.com/grant/NIH/F32-GM078910-01A1

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3714104/


www.pyxislabs.com/2017-3-6-kratom-and-its-alkaloids/

Recent studies indicate that mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine bind to and partially activate human µ-opioid receptors, the same receptors fully triggered by morphine. Also, it was reported that the compound mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, generated by fermenting mitragynine, is an even more potent activator of µ-opioid receptors than mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine. Mice treated with a typical painkilling dose of mitragynine pseudoindoxyl experienced little respiratory depression, a common side effect of opioids such as morphine. These are early evidence of therapeutic potential for the plant compounds and their derivatives that can be produced semisynthetically.

core.ac.uk/download/pdf/95356094.pdf

Initial investigations used in vitro radioligand binding assays with cell lines stably
expressing murine opioid receptors (Figure 2, Table 1). Mitragynine (1) showed poor affinity at
all opioid receptors, whereas 7-hydroxymitragynine (2) showed moderate affinity at the mu
opioid receptor clone MOR-1, 5-fold higher than 1, and was considerably more potent at the
expressed delta opioid receptor clone DOR-1 than 1.
44 Mitragynine pseudoindoxyl (3) displayed
the highest overall binding affinity for MOR-1 and DOR-1 (Ki 0.8 nM and 3 nM, respectively)
while also showing a moderate affinity for KOR-1 . These data suggest that conversion of the
indole to indolenine ring to the spiro-pseudoindoxyl core dramatically increases affinity for
opioid receptors.
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Betuangie Kratom (fermented method) 4 months 2 weeks ago #48445

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its been said by some people that yes its the lesser of the two but all the places i read that have no scientific study to back it up. Whereas ive read in numerous lab studies and tests that mitragynine psuedoindoxyl is incredibly stronger than both other alkaloids and there is case study, tables, proccesses all explaining how it is stronger. Im not sitting here sayin argumentatively (hey your wrong and im right) im just simply saying i tend to swing towards facts and proven studies to back up a claim and when it comes to mitragyning psuedoindoxyl its been proven that it is much stronger then 7ohm and even much stronger than morphine
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Betuangie Kratom (fermented method) 4 months 2 weeks ago #48435

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Mscanlan4803 wrote: So i just tried Betuangie for the first time today from a trusted and proven source that truly ferments their kratom. Which is the process of which true Betuangie is created. It is a very euphoric brand of kratom, and at the same time I have energy but no negative side effects. So far this is my favorite kratom. I have read in lab studies that this type of process to which they process Betuangie alters the alkaloids of mitragynine and 7ohm to create another alkaloid called mitragynine psuedoindoxyl. Now i've heard mixed reports on this from kratom enthusiasts that claim this alkaloid is less active in the body blah blah blah. I also read on ncbi through lab study in rats that this alkaloid is far much stronger than the others. It is in close relation and effects to morphine, and in this case shows stronger ability to be analgesic and create euphoria without recruiting b arrestin (which morphine does) which is known to suppress your breathing. Now i have noticed a much greater euphoria and analgesic effect with this type of kratom than compared to any other brand, strain, or origin i've taken so far. What are your thoughts guys, have you taken this before? Do you like it or dislike it? and are there any other kratom strains, names, origins, etc that is your go to or is close to the effects of Betuangie


I've tried a lot of bents in my time; fermented strains are generally very difficult to get right. I'd correct you in that the fermentation does create mitragynine psuedoindoxyl, but the actual goal is to convert mitragynine into 7HOM instead of mitragynine psuedoindoxyl. This is the "hard to get right" part. See, mitragynine psuedoindoxyl is a weaker alkaloid than the other two, which is why more often than not, folks have to dose more of a fermented strain than a green/white method dried one. The supplier in most cases has turned the mitragynine into mitragynine psuedoindoxyl instead of 7HOM, leading to weaker effects.

For the strong fermented batches, conditions have to be perfect to convert to the 7HOM, the stronger of the three.

Simplified, when bagged with some dampness, the sunlight hits the bag, agitates the H2O ions and evaporates some of the water. The mitragynine can absorb an O molecule and produce either mitragynine psuedoindoxyl or 7HOM. Certain methods produce more of one than the other.

I personally enjoy bents, but as I said, 90% of the time I have to dose higher as it's mostly mitragynine psuedoindoxyl. However, every once in awhile, you'll find a supplier that has perfected achieving a better conversion to 7HOM over the pseudoindoxyl... That's the fermented you really want to try!
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Betuangie Kratom (fermented method) 4 months 2 weeks ago #48416

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I am very interested with the alchemy of it too i find myself in my free time doing constant research on the chemical make up of kratom and all the processes used in processing especially ***ditto*** the fermentation process. I do want to try more Thai originated kratoms as i recently found this labratory study stating this

Typical potency:

The chemical composition of kratom in commercial products is unspecified and depends on several factors, such as the particular variety and age of the plant, the environment, and the time of harvest. The total alkaloid concentration in dried leaves ranges from 0.5–1.5 %. In Thai varieties, mitragynine is the most abundant component (up to 66 % of total alkaloids) while 7-hydroxymitragynine is a minor constituent (up to 2 % of total alkaloid content). In Malaysian kratom varieties, mitragynine is present at lower concentration (12 % of total alkaloids). The typical mitragynine and 7-hydroxymitragynine concentrations in dried leaf or powdered kratom products available in Japan were 12–21 mg/g and 0.11–0.39 mg/g, respectively; kratom resins contained 35.6–62.6 mg/g of mitragynine and 0.12–0.37 mg/g of 7-hydroxymitragynine.

According to GC-MS analysis of freshly made Malaysian ‘ketum’ drinks, prepared by extended boiling of fresh leaves in water, one 250 ml glass of ‘ketum’ contained 22.5–25 mg mitragynine. About three such drinks a day are said to be sufficient to diminish opiate withdrawal symptoms.
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Betuangie Kratom (fermented method) 4 months 2 weeks ago #48414

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I never was very fond of bentuangie until semi recently .... which totally made me change my mind ! The ones I’ve enjoyed are from Benni Botanicals(benty Bali, milk chocolate bent, super bent , TFH ( Texas Family Harvest )chocolate bent , and Restore Botanical.... who doesn’t have a website complete but I have his email address if anyone wants it ... the ones I mentioned are the ones that impressed me ... I’d like to try diff sources / batches as well.

Other “strains “ that aren’t bents but have similar effects ( to me anyways ) are Lucky Herbal super green , Benni super red kali , big red blend #14 .... off the top of my head ...

I’m fascinated by the alkaloid profile of all kratom types , but especially fermented ones ... maybe cause I’m into those kinds of alchemy ..
Pretty neat stuff !

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Last edit: by Somethingsacredgoinonhere.

Betuangie Kratom (fermented method) 4 months 2 weeks ago #48403

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So i just tried Betuangie for the first time today from a trusted and proven source that truly ferments their kratom. Which is the process of which true Betuangie is created. It is a very euphoric brand of kratom, and at the same time I have energy but no negative side effects. So far this is my favorite kratom. I have read in lab studies that this type of process to which they process Betuangie alters the alkaloids of mitragynine and 7ohm to create another alkaloid called mitragynine psuedoindoxyl. Now i've heard mixed reports on this from kratom enthusiasts that claim this alkaloid is less active in the body blah blah blah. I also read on ncbi through lab study in rats that this alkaloid is far much stronger than the others. It is in close relation and effects to morphine, and in this case shows stronger ability to be analgesic and create euphoria without recruiting b arrestin (which morphine does) which is known to suppress your breathing. Now i have noticed a much greater euphoria and analgesic effect with this type of kratom than compared to any other brand, strain, or origin i've taken so far. What are your thoughts guys, have you taken this before? Do you like it or dislike it? and are there any other kratom strains, names, origins, etc that is your go to or is close to the effects of Betuangie
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