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22 Jun 2020
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what to do about tolerance? 8 months 6 days ago #45055

  • michele373
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its so funny how kratom reacts to us. and trust me once you think 'I got this' something changes.. lol. babel is better than explaining the 'why' hes a supplement guru..

possible potentiators akuamma, citrus, carbonation, black seed oil, coconut oil and the like, agmatine, turmeric with black pepper, coffee, and possibly even cayenne pepper supposedly, that one I haven't tried. I use essential oils for overall health with my kratom dose and that generally helps too. actually helps it taste better.. lol but.. especially if im adding grapefruit or turmeric and pepper.

I guess we all just want to get the most out of what we take already. I try not to 'stick' with one company too long or for too many consecutive days. at least that's me. then I just seem to want/ need more for it to work correctly. change strains and companies often.

im stashing up on stem and vein as well for a full tolerance break around jan. just like the leaf if I want it to work properly, I don't just want to use the same company/ bag every day.
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what to do about tolerance? 8 months 6 days ago #45053

  • TianMiFeng
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"This is where it gets to be a bit of an art, as the more effective you can make each serving, the more you should strive to keep the serving to the minimum effective amount, and that could mean lowering it."

This makes sense to me and I'd actually been thinking about this this morning before I read your post. I've probably been doing that already because I take my kratom with a tiny (18kg) amount of orange mango juice diluted with water. But I'm going to read back over these posts to see what else I can experiment with. Thanks.
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what to do about tolerance? 8 months 1 week ago #45039

  • Littlebear3
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When it comes to frequency, I take mine before I get out of bed for the day. Once I get moving, my arthritis pain levels decrease. When I take an afternoon boost, it is generally for mood and energy boost.
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what to do about tolerance? 8 months 1 week ago #45038

  • Babel-17
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P.S. I can't edit my above post anymore, there's a limit to that, and I failed to get to a specific point regarding "I want to cut down my body's need for kratom NOT increase it.".

Yeah, if you started taking all the stuff mentioned here then you'd actually be feeling more of an effect from each serving, and you're not looking for that.

This is where it gets to be a bit of an art, as the more effective you can make each serving, the more you should strive to keep the serving to the minimum effective amount, and that could mean lowering it.

But most people approach their situation with their servings already not being as effective as desired, and they don't want to keep escalating the amounts they take. In such a case, both potentiating the serving, and taking what is thought to reduce tolerance, can restore a person to being satisfied with their current consumption, instead of dissatisfied, and thus feeling prone to increasing the amount they take.

This is going to vary case by case. For you, if you want to be in the situation where you're taking less, but still managing pain and discomfort, then you can try simultaneously lowering the amount of each serving, while potentiating them.

And reducing tolerance is always a good idea, and things like Ginger or black seed oil are taken by millions of people, for health, and pain reduction, who've never even heard of Kratom.

And as you work on tolerance, there too you can also reduce the amount you take, if you feel so inclined.
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what to do about tolerance? 8 months 1 week ago #45037

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TianMiFeng wrote:
1) It was a bit curious to me that so many of you talked about potentiating (who would have thought of black pepper). I can only assume that you thought that i didn't want to increase the amount I was taking because of cost; otherwise, I don't think you would have suggested potentiating. I want to cut down my body's need for kratom NOT increase it. Did I miss something here?


The word "potentiating" sometimes gets used as a catch-all term, but if I'm using it specifically it's in reference to making each serving of Kratom more effective. That dovetails with reducing tolerance, because if you can reduce tolerance, by way of ginger or black seed oil for example, you are also making it the situation that you can a good effect from servings of Kratom that aren't much more than what you took when you first started using Kratom.

Though I have plenty of Kratom stored away, I like potentiating the Kratom I take for a couple of reasons. One, it means I have to digest, and have my body process, less Kratom. Two, and imo this is the most important, the way I potentiate is done in the hope of providing a smoother "burn", one with no sharp drop off. It hopefully makes each serving more consistent in effect. And thirdly, which is derivative of Two, is that the way I potentiate is done in the hope of being comfortable with fairly widely spaced servings.

In vitamin supplement taking terms, I'm striving for "easy absorption", and "extended release", two things which can be contradictory in how they're normally achieved, though it is doable with a lot of vitamin supplements.

Citric acid, or warm/hot water, or freezing a prepared solution, can all help with easy absorption. The fineness of the grind is a factor as well.

"Extended release" is where things like black pepper, CBD extract, curcumin, and other things, can be helpful in keeping our bodies from marking the alkaloids in kratom, or at least some of them, from being processed out of usefulness.

Stem and Vein Kratom has a different alkaloid profile, one which afaik is lower in the one that tickles the opioid receptor, and it also has a denser grind. Between its different alkaloid profile, and its grind, it too can help in making a serving of Kratom more, I'll say "satiating", for lack of a better word at the ready.

I currently use MCT oil, which derives from coconut oil, after I take some Kratom, and I also during the day take hemp seed oil. I think, but don't know, that the oil helps get the alkaloids from the powder into the bloodstream, and deliver them where we want them to go. And I think it helps with making each serving more of an extended release kind of proposition.

So potentiating a serving of Kratom might not make the onset of its effects more pronounced, though some think there's a bit of that, but it can make those effects felt more consistently over a period of time.

The ideal being to not have Kratom provide such a rapid onset, and rapid clearance, that wanting more servings becomes an issue.

Everyone is different, and we're different on different days, and different times of the day, so preparing each serving is something of an art which is particular to each user, and now that I think about it, is probably another reason that Kratom gets referred to as "tea". People are reminded of what they know of the various ceremonies around the world regarding taking tea that they've learned of.

Lol, though I'm not too fancy. But there is a decided ritual to it. And I guess most of us do schedule our servings away from our meals.
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Last edit: by Babel-17.

what to do about tolerance? 8 months 1 week ago #45034

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2) One thing I find confusing on this, and other, kratom sites is that often individuals give the dosage they're taking (such as 3 grams) but it's unclear how many such doses they're taking in a day. Of course, sometimes it's clear but I think, more often than not, it's not. I take anywhere between 9 and 13 grams a day and that's divided into 4 doses of approximately 3 grams each. Taking that much doesn't concern me but I don't want to go any higher (and, in fact, I've begun to experiment with going lower).


Dosing depends what you personally need. Your dose sounds average actually but lower or higher is acceptable because I believe that we are entitled to know how to manage our own pain. I take kratom to manage spinal arthritis, back pain, lower lumbar stenosis. I take 1.7 grams of greens weekdays. 2.4 grams of a Red strain every night. So twice a day week days and once a day on weekends. Its my own personal decision. If I have trouble managing pain I will take a booster dose , but usually I take other botanicals in between kratom to help manage.

1) It was a bit curious to me that so many of you talked about potentiating (who would have thought of black pepper). I can only assume that you thought that i didn't want to increase the amount I was taking because of cost; otherwise, I don't think you would have suggested potentiating. I want to cut down my body's need for kratom NOT increase it. Did I miss something here?


Good question. I cannot answer to most of this but for me I will use a potentiator if I am having high amounts of pain to tackle. Or I need a quicker kick in time. I never considered ginger or turmeric a potentiator just a tolerance reducer. I use black peeper with turmeric specifically to help absorption my intention was not for use with kratom but I am taking turmeric throughout the day they eventually coincide.

Kratom has been excellent for me because it allows function and I consider it one of the best anti inflammatory plants I have ever tried. Kind of underappreciated function of the some of the Kratom alkaloids.
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what to do about tolerance? 8 months 1 week ago #45032

  • Laurie
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Frequency is definitely an important part of the overall dose size! I’ve had to learn to cut back on frequency of use while it has been an easy way to get into more dependence without realizing it. Keeping a log is really helpful for self accountability - that’s my current strategy.

I’m having to be willing to experience some discomfort between doses except for extreme cases of particular important need.

Less is more.

So glad you’re finding the forum helpful! I look forward to hearing more from you as your journey evolves..
Laurie
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what to do about tolerance? 8 months 1 week ago #45031

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So, I've appreciated the time many of you've taken to weigh in on this topic. I've learned a lot and, taking some of the advice given, I'm back on track. I got completely discombobulated when we spent a week in a cabin in the woods: It was very cold and rainy the entire time, the mattress was lumpy, I just couldn't sleep, and I felt as if I were 150 years old. Basically, I wasn't on any schedule and ended up taking more kratom than usual. Though I don't think it was much, it was enough to put me into (minor) withdrawal when I went back to my usual schedule. Your comments reassured me that this wasn't the end of the world and I just withstood the discomfort, even decreased my doses a bit, and am not having any withdrawal symptoms at all anymore. So, again, my thanks.

Two further comments:

1) It was a bit curious to me that so many of you talked about potentiating (who would have thought of black pepper). I can only assume that you thought that i didn't want to increase the amount I was taking because of cost; otherwise, I don't think you would have suggested potentiating. I want to cut down my body's need for kratom NOT increase it. Did I miss something here?

2) One thing I find confusing on this, and other, kratom sites is that often individuals give the dosage they're taking (such as 3 grams) but it's unclear how many such doses they're taking in a day. Of course, sometimes it's clear but I think, more often than not, it's not. I take anywhere between 9 and 13 grams a day and that's divided into 4 doses of approximately 3 grams each. Taking that much doesn't concern me but I don't want to go any higher (and, in fact, I've begun to experiment with going lower).

I started taking kratom to ameliorate intense pain associated with a frozen shoulder but then realized that it worked wonders for my arthritis. My husband and I are seniors with pretty significant arthritis, and we consider kratom our wonder drug.
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what to do about tolerance? 8 months 1 week ago #45001

  • Littlebear3
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I haven't really felt the tolerance issue. Sometimes Kratom does not work as well for me, but I just assume that there could be a million reasons for it. When I have a really bad day (like today) I take an afternoon dose. But the next day I am back to a regular routine. For quite a while I stuck to my favorite dark red meng da, but now I switch strains frequently. So I suspect that has also helped me avoid the tolerance issue.

Working with Kratom gets to be quite a job just because of all the information you have to absorb. I do hope research continues on kratom, but not by those looking to ban it.
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what to do about tolerance? 8 months 1 week ago #44985

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Hey Michelle, if taking fish oil capsules you can try freezing them. Some people swear by that. I'm taking hemp seed oil now for omega 3.

nnlifestyle.com/hemp-oil-vs-fish-oil/

Edit: But a good fish oil will offer better bang for the buck. I live near a vitamin outlet store where some really good clearance sales could be had, and the oil was over a year away from being expired. A real lot of America's biggest suppliers are right by me, and this outlet gets a decent amount of what's just excess inventory.

But anyway, because I figure hemp seed oil might also have terpenes that compliment the CBD extract I take, I shopped around for the best deal I could get. As I get 15% off with Subscribe and Save, and free shipping, at Amazon, that made my selection be something that offered that. Prices always change, but when I subscribed to it the best deal for me was Nutiva Organic, Cold-Pressed, Unrefined Hemp Seed Oil, the 24 oz. size. I only mention that so as to save a lot of tedious price comparisons for those that can't abide that.

So if shopping for hemp seed oil at Amazon, I'd start with that, and then see if you can beat their deal. That should make price comparisons a bit easier.

Edit 2: When comparing prices remember that humongous gallon sizes are best used with a certain time after opening, even with refrigeration. It's not as delicate as flax seed oil but the same principle applies.
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