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TOPIC: Kratom and opiods

Kratom and opiods 10 months 2 weeks ago #41415

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Tammyfaye96 wrote: Hey hon, I'm new here to but not new to the kratom/opioid war. I can add this. Once you get a tolerance to synthetic opioids it NEVER goes back down. Unfortunately your body cannot be reset. I was recently given a narcotic for a kidney stone in the ER (dilauded). I havent had synthetic opioids before this for probably around 5 years and it had no pain relieving effect on me. Just like if I had been a daily user. I can see using both to spread it out or keep a decent level of pain. Right now we are using a combo of the kratom and tring to get to a lower dose of subutex. Only take 1 8mg pill per day. Down from 3 per day. The kratom will help more than u realize. Also do find an approved vendor and mix your strains. Good luck. I know the struggle is real. Noone knows your pain better than you.



Well I guess I can pop in here and give some lived experience on the topic of tolerance.

I have been using Kratom for over two years and I found it when I started to come off Oxycodone, which I had been using for 3 years. I take 7 grams 4 times per day when pain is bad. 3 times on a good day.

I have not taken any oxycodone since I started kratom, however, I had two bouts of dental/oral surgery recently and I can tell you for sure, that my opioid tolerance has come down a BIT but not much.

It was pretty awful to not have adequate pain relief for acute pain. I finally went to my physician who readily prescribed a limited number of Percocet for me so I could get some relief. He knows me and he knows that I am opioid tolerant.

He prescribed one twice per day...I had to take 2 to get ANY kind of pain relief (that would be 10 mg of oxycodone) so I still have a tolerance. However, I needed 20 mg of oxycodone in a single dose when I finally quit because my tolerance had built up that much....so it has come down somewhat.

The moral of the story is, IF you know you are opioid tolerant this HAS to be discussed with your physician, otherwise you will not get adequate pain relief when needed....like a kidney stone event, or surgery.

I TOLD the oral surgeon about my tolerance and he prescribed Tramacet (Tramadol and acetominophen) it was absolutely USELESS. Even two of them did nothing.

So you have to be your own advocate, and it pays to have a good relationship with your doc!
BEV

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Kratom and opiods 10 months 3 weeks ago #41103

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BaliDreamzzz wrote: I can expand on this a little bit from my experience as I rotate every few days between Kratom and gabapentin. If I feel my kraton tolerance going up, ill switch a few days to the gabapentin, and when I switch back to the Kratom I have noticed that my tolerance had diminished. So taking the opiods and the kraton, although providing similar relief, neither has gotten in the way of the other and I find it a great tool to lower tolerance on both ends. Especially since like Laurie said, the longer you can wait to take your Kratom the lower your tolerance will be and the more benefits you should receive. My word is not bible, but based on my experience, rotating the two has tremendously assisted in keeping my tolerance down. Hope this helps a bit!


I’m a bit confused because gabapentin isn’t an opiate/opioid. I understand how switching from kratom to gabapentin and back keeps tolerance down for the kratom.

I find that gabapentin potentiates the effects of kratom but that’s my personal experience. I’m no longer prescribed it since the psychiatrist said it’s used off label for anxiety and he’s not comfortable prescribing it.

He had been refilling it for me as I had been on it awhile. I’ve been going to same place for psyc meds but the Drs. Keep changing. I wasn’t taking gabapentin regularly then told I needed to by my psyc ATM but this Dr. feels differently so when I scheduled an appt later than I should’ve he realized I had gone w/o and wouldn’t refill.

Truth is it didn’t help My anxiety. I have severe neuropathy but I don’t like seeing my PCP so it was easier to get that Med from psyc.

This psyc has also reduced me from #90 1mg clonazepam to #45 .5 mg to #20 .5 To now NONE! He took me down way too fast.

I have history of seizures and I’ve had seizures from Drs tapering me too fast. He says he might prescribe it again but I know it’s doubtful. His reasoning is that studies show long term use of benzos causes early onset dementia.

So it’s more than a war on opiates. Drs. are taking patients off of Any meds that are schedule 2 & 4. Also schedule 3 drugs which do exist but when you get from pharmacy it’s number will
start with a 4.

FDA also considering making gabapentin a class 4 drug. It seems that many ppl who use opiates like taking gabapentin to potentiate them. I’ve seen some people get really messed up on this Med. I’ve heard people say it also potentiates benzos but I haven’t felt that personally. Ppl do sell their gabapentin scripts. I never abused it. I was shocked when I ran out I had w/d I was freezing. Definitely felt different that opiate withdrawals. Without gabapentin I can’t feel my 4 fingers on both hands. If someone tries putting something in my hand and if Idk they’re doing it, I’ll drop it unless it touches my palm. Long story what happened but I literally couldn’t write my own name. I’ve gotten better but it sux not having gabapentin or clonazepam. Without the anti anxiety Med I leave my house even less than when I was taking it. Anyone who knows me personally can’t believe the Dr. won’t prescribe. I shake quite a lot due to anxiety. I’ve never abused this Med or benzos. He’s even given me random drug tests and I pass. SMH

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Kratom and opiods 11 months 3 weeks ago #39653

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The best advice someone gave me re: kratom was recognizing the thin line between your sweet spot and a full blown buzz. Never go for the buzz or feeling opioid meds give you. You will only end up upping your dose until negative side effects kick in, including tolerance issues. Just find good stable ground for yourself. Then, if you find you are having to use more, try another vendor or strain/blend and rotate. Just subconsciously, we can expect kratom to feel the same as a synthetic pain med, when in reality, it's better than that. It's more subtle and you can find a mix that works for you individually.
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Kratom and opiods 11 months 3 weeks ago #39563

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Hello welcome to the forum,

Its hard to say why tolerance builds for some people. For myself I rotate different strains from a few different vendors. I do not take enhanced kratom or kratom extracts. I weigh all my doses and keep them the same. I also take turmeric with all my kratom doses.
I post this link for a fyi when I hear tolerance question.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4352596/

Also we have a nurse on this forum, bomalley, who I think is currently enjoying a vacation if she pops in maybe she can add to this discussion or you can try searching her username for prior conversations.

We have a few members who have balanced Kratom with their opioid medicines. For accute pain/post surgery pain its usually better to take the prescription medicines to manage pain with a plan to taper off them and replace kratom back into the routine.
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Kratom and opiods 11 months 3 weeks ago #39554

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Hey hon, I'm new here to but not new to the kratom/opioid war. I can add this. Once you get a tolerance to synthetic opioids it NEVER goes back down. Unfortunately your body cannot be reset. I was recently given a narcotic for a kidney stone in the ER (dilauded). I havent had synthetic opioids before this for probably around 5 years and it had no pain relieving effect on me. Just like if I had been a daily user. I can see using both to spread it out or keep a decent level of pain. Right now we are using a combo of the kratom and tring to get to a lower dose of subutex. Only take 1 8mg pill per day. Down from 3 per day. The kratom will help more than u realize. Also do find an approved vendor and mix your strains. Good luck. I know the struggle is real. Noone knows your pain better than you.
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Kratom and opiods 11 months 3 weeks ago #39545

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I can expand on this a little bit from my experience as I rotate every few days between Kratom and gabapentin. If I feel my kraton tolerance going up, ill switch a few days to the gabapentin, and when I switch back to the Kratom I have noticed that my tolerance had diminished. So taking the opiods and the kraton, although providing similar relief, neither has gotten in the way of the other and I find it a great tool to lower tolerance on both ends. Especially since like Laurie said, the longer you can wait to take your Kratom the lower your tolerance will be and the more benefits you should receive. My word is not bible, but based on my experience, rotating the two has tremendously assisted in keeping my tolerance down. Hope this helps a bit!
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Kratom and opiods 11 months 3 weeks ago #39542

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Laurie wrote: Agreed!

Glad she’s through that ordeal!

I noticed reduced response to synthetic meds in hospital also. Needed more once to complete the viewing of my colon. Unfortunately that is the one procedure where “just use more kratom first or pack some” won’t be handy dandy! Haha

¡Laurie! ¡ Mi precioso conejito de playa! Te estás viendo hermosa como siempre. ¡ Siempre es un placer verte!

Be blessed. Tu admiradora no tan secreta.


Robie
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Kratom and opiods 11 months 3 weeks ago #39540

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Welcome to the best kratom forum ever, galenajen!

My above post was in relation to Somethingsacred’s comments (I failed to scroll up all the way to see your questions).

In most cases, we have a higher tolerance. So your concern is valid.

If you are ALREADY having tolerance issues, I would be concerned about the product you’re consuming. That name is not an approved vendor for discussion here (so I moved the thread to our area for discussing all vendors) and I wonder if you’re using just kratom or enhanced product? It’s not typical to have higher tolerance so new on your kratom journey. But, as you explained your bouts with cancer management, and you are still using 10% synthetic opiates, that can definitely make matters worse for you.

As a remedy in advance, I would recommend expanding the length of time between ingesting either kratom or synthetic pain meds. The more time IN BETWEEN DOSES, the lower your tolerance.
You are not yet getting the full benefits of kratom. So the best is yet to come, as it really helps with pain MORE than the meds you’ve come to rely on.

But you can figure that out on your own time when you’re good and ready, emotionally!

I hope you have something for anxiety as well, because this issue will NOT cause you pain in the hospital, I assure you. But it WILL give you visions of pain in your mind related to your history in hospitals and that anxiety is very powerful. Try not to PANIC and needlessly suffer from thinking about this issue. It’s not easy! Let us know if you have more questions and need a few tips on relaxation techniques for relieving anxiety because anxiety makes a mess of our decisions and judgement.

Glad you found the forum and I hope you’ll consider looking at shopping with the Approved Vendors. It will be a huge relief to know your product is free of contaminants and is 100% quality. Head shops are not even provided the choice to buy better quality. They cannot get it and do not sell it.

Laurie
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Last edit: by Laurie.

Kratom and opiods 11 months 3 weeks ago #39534

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Agreed!

Glad she’s through that ordeal!

I noticed reduced response to synthetic meds in hospital also. Needed more once to complete the viewing of my colon. Unfortunately that is the one procedure where “just use more kratom first or pack some” won’t be handy dandy! Haha
Laurie
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Kratom and opiods 11 months 3 weeks ago #39531

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As far is taking opioids or opiates after taking Kratom,You may have increased tolerance to pain medication, not always but it’s possible… My lady had a hernia repair and use the Kratom right up till the night before the day of surgery and didn’t seem to have much issue with anesthesia or the effects of the pain medicine she took for three days after her procedure… after two or three days of being on pain meds she switch back to Credo them with no he’ll affect from getting off the pain pills even though it was a short amount of time sometimes people can have a experience were there emotionally feeling intense or sweating out a bunch of pharmaceuticals… In the crate him she said was in her opinion much more effective and in anyway is better than the pain medicine she was given

So far it’s the best tool that I found and has changed my life in ways I didn’t think possible, then people with more experience will chime in soon… I’m sure

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